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Charlie Kirk Debates 9 Women on Abortion, Souls, and When Life Truly Begins
Charlie Kirk engages 9 Women in a passionate debate about abortion, consciousness, and the soul. When they argue for pro-choice positions based on consciousness and safety, Kirk challenges them with moral arguments rooted in the existence of the soul at conception. The conversation moves from scientific claims about fetal pain to philosophical questions about when life begins, with Kirk pushing them to consider whether their logic could justify historical atrocities. The exchange reveals deep divides on birth control, education, and whether restricting abortion actually reduces the practice.
The Pro-Choice Position and Safety Argument
The conversation begins with the women expressing concern about abortion becoming illegal. One female clarifies that she identifies as pro-choice rather than pro-abortion, arguing that abortions will happen regardless of legality, so they should be safe and accessible. She emphasizes the importance of education and open conversation about abortion.
Charlie Kirk immediately challenges this assumption with data from Texas, where abortion rates have dropped dramatically after restrictions were implemented. While some women travel to other states for abortions, the birth rate has increased, contradicting the claim that women will always find a way to terminate pregnancies.
The Soul Versus Consciousness Debate
A female poses a hypothetical question: if science proved definitively that consciousness and pain don't exist until birth, would Kirk support abortion? Kirk responds that his argument isn't based on consciousness but on the soul, which he believes enters at the moment of conception when DNA is created.
Kirk distinguishes between consciousness and the soul, pointing to religious beliefs that the soul continues after consciousness ceases. He argues that consciousness is insufficient as a moral framework because there are experiences of beauty and transcendence that reason cannot explain—moments that feel eternal and divine, suggesting something beyond mere brain function.
When asked when the soul enters a being, Kirk states it happens at creation, at the moment sperm meets egg. A female responds that she also believes in souls but thinks they simply move on to another life if an abortion occurs, making the termination less morally problematic.
The Holocaust Comparison and Moral Boundaries
Kirk challenges this logic by asking what would be wrong with the Holocaust if Jewish souls simply moved on to another place. The female responds that the Holocaust involved torture and suffering, not just death. Kirk presses further, asking if quick, painless execution would have been acceptable if souls move on.
The female objects to the comparison as insane, but Kirk maintains that if the moral standard is simply that souls move on, then the form of death shouldn't matter. The female clarifies that her concern is also about the living and what they experience, not just the destination of the soul. She states she doesn't believe a fetus experiences living life until consciousness develops, which she places around 22 weeks.
Fetal Pain and Medical Practice
Kirk introduces evidence that challenges the timeline of fetal consciousness. He explains that at Planned Parenthood facilities in Southern California, pain medication is offered for fetuses during 14-week abortions—for an additional fee of about forty dollars, the same cost as ordering a pizza. This practice, he argues, suggests the medical establishment acknowledges fetal pain far earlier than 22 weeks.
The female counters that the medical industry's treatment of women is often unfair, pointing out that women must get IUDs inserted without pain medication. This deflection attempts to shift the conversation to broader healthcare inequities.
The Central Question: Fewer Abortions
Kirk asks a straightforward question: would fewer abortions in America be a good thing? The female agrees it would be, but emphasizes the question is how to achieve that goal. She suggests birth control and education as the solution.
Kirk challenges this assumption with a counterintuitive observation: as birth control has become more available in Western societies, abortion rates have increased rather than decreased. He suggests this is because widespread birth control enables more sexual activity without necessarily preventing pregnancy.
Kirk proposes what he calls a "radical idea"—that people wait to have sex until marriage. This traditional moral framework, he implies, would more effectively reduce abortions than expanded access to contraception, which has not produced the promised results.
Video Transcript
0:00
if if I were to say that abortion was
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illegal in America tomorrow that would
0:04
be worrisome to you guys yeah 100% I
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think tell me when we say pro-abortion I
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don't think that that's necessarily
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accurate for how I feel I think I'm
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pro-choice because people are probably
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going to get abortions anyways I would
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prefer them be safe it's not something I
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would necessarily do for myself but I do
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think if it's going to be happening
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which it is it should be safe and it
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should be something that everyone talks
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about and everyone's educated on
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beforehand so in Texas they just
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outlawed abortion abortion rates have
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gone down dramatically so it's not
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totally true it's half true they're
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going to other states to get them but
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the birth rate's gone up so it's like
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this idea that people are going to find
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them otherwise sometimes they just have
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the baby instead are you more concerned
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with the birth rate going up or or well
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all of it I the morality of is the
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number one issue which we do not have a
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moral obligation to terminate human
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beings smaller than us so I have a
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question for you so if it was
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scientifically proven like 100% without
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a doubt that you don't have a
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Consciousness you don't feel pain until
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the day you come out the womb you're
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fine with any and all types of abortions
1:00
all of a sudden no no conscious is not
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that's her argument my argument is that
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at the point of your DNA's creation a
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New Soul is entering the world and the
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Soul transcends reason and I'll prove it
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to you guys so you're saying soul and
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Consciousness aren't related no not at
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all we know that at least in the
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religious realm because when your
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Consciousness ceases your soul lives oh
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okay because it goes to an afterlife in
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a religious context I'm not going to win
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you over on a modern context sorry no
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but let me try to win you over because
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there are points when we all see beauty
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beuty when our reason or our
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Consciousness is not able to describe
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them I was at a loss for words that
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Sunset was so beautiful I I it took my
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breath away it was breathtaking and I
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know we all had those when you go to Yos
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when you see a sunset in Santa Barbara
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all of a sudden you're like wow that is
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that that touches me at a level that is
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eternal and beautiful and is divine my
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argument is that every being at the time
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of creation which is when the sperm and
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egg meat when the deoo ribonucleic acid
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is formed that being has a soul and if
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you don't make the soul argument then
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you make the Consciousness argument and
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it's easy to make that cuz it's just
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we're all we're not I think our being is
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more than just a bunch of brain cells
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well no I think we have souls as well
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along with the when does the soul enter
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the being when you are created got it so
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is no so I mean you're indifferent
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towards allowing a soul to be dismissed
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without because they'll move on some
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because I fully believe a soul will move
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on to another got it so that that's
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interesting so what was wrong with
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osit I mean that was just horrible why
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insane question the Jewish Souls were
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going to another place what's wrong with
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no no no because they were being
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tortured well no let's say the death was
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quick no no it wasn't though let's not
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play stupid here okay let's just well a
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lot of deaths were at incidents
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execution if if the death was no they
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they were stared well some were but let
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me just let me rephrase it then some
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with an insane thing to say some well
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yes some Jews were immediately killed
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when they got off of the rail cars yes
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they were tortured they were they were
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tearing away from their fam let me ask
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you a different question now let's if if
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the death was seamless and without pain
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and immediate okay can can you just pull
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away from the owitz argument cuz that is
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insane to compare that you just you just
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said that the soul goes to another place
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and that's fine yes but it's not about
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the soul it's also about the living so
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it's about the form of death no it's
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about the living being what they
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experien but I don't fully believe that
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fetus is experiencing a a living life
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until they have Consciousness and they I
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don't believe that they do until what 22
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weeks when you have a 14-week abortion
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at Planned Parenthood in Southern
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California they offer for an additional
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fee pain medication for the fetus I'm
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I'm I'm so there the data assumes nobody
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can ask them but the data assumes that
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at 14 weeks which is legal California's
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20 weeks right at 14 the data shows that
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the fetus can feel pain and struggle so
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they offer for an additional fee you can
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either get pain medication for your
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fetus as you aborted or you can get a
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pizza or a pizza it's about 40 bucks
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extra to get pain medication wom also
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have to like get an IUD with no pain
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medication like the medical industry
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deriv towards women is not fair if there
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were less abortions in America would
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that be a good thing yes of course the
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question is how we get there that's a
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that's a good question how do we get
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there birth control education so the
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more birth control that has happened UC
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the more birth control we've had in the
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west the more abortions we have cuz
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people have have more people need to be
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implemented like uh self-control what
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how about this radical idea what if
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people waited to have sex when they got
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married