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I want to talk about the debate of
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abortion. So, I know that it's something
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very controversial. Some people are
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pro-choice, some people are pro-life.
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Um, before I start, I want to make sure
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that I understand your opinion fully.
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So, I don't take, you know, what I've
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heard online. What is your stance on
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abortion?
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Life begins at conception.
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Okay. So, where do you So, conception.
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So, is that when sperm enters the egg?
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Is that during
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when new DNA is formed?
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Okay. When new DNA is formed. So the egg
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by itself you don't think is anything.
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Sorry.
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The egg of a woman by itself do you
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think it's anything?
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It's something but it's not a life.
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Correct.
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Okay. That's okay. So my question is
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when you talk about abortion and why you
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think you so why you support it? Why you
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don't support it? Sorry. Why you don't
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support it? What do you use as your
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evidence? You use scientific evidence?
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Do you talk about the Bible? Do you use
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both?
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Mainly self scientific and self-evident
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reason.
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Okay. So are you someone who's a
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follower of the Bible? I am, but that's
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not relevant to this discussion. But we
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could talk about it if you'd like.
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I find it relevant because when I'm
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going to talk about abortion, there's
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there's quotes in the Bible that I think
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support pro-choice in my opinion
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[cheering]
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Bible. Exodus
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Exodus 21 22- 25 when men strive
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together and hit a pregnant woman so
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that her child come out. So miscarriage,
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but there is no harm to the woman, the
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one who hit her shall surely be fined,
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as the woman's husband shall impose on
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him, and he shall pay as a judges
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determined. But if there is harm to the
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woman, you shall pay life for life, foot
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for foot, burn for burn, wound for
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wound, stripe for stripe. So I know that
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that can be interpreted different ways.
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The Bible is interpreted many ways,
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different there's different types,
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different um interpretations. But this
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says if a person causes a miscarriage
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through a woman that they will pay
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for the abortion. So they they will pay
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another one will punish them.
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That is not what this law says. But let
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me just ask are you a Christian?
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Yes.
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Okay. Then continue. So
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so
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do you believe in the inherent word of
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God?
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Yes.
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Okay. Good.
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Yes. Um, so it says that as the woman's
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husband shall impose on him and he shall
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pay as the judge is determined. So the
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judge is determined and it's talking
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about the husband. So therefore it's
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talking about a person, not God himself,
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not his judgment. So it's saying if
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someone has an abortion, we have the
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right to choose what to do to them,
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right?
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But didn't you say it was a miscarriage,
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not an abortion?
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It says when man strive together and hit
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a pregnant woman, so that's causing her
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to lose the baby. That's outside cause.
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outside cause. Therefore, it could mean
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abortion because some people find that
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aggressive abortion is through violence
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some such as hitting because not
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everyone has access to medical.
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Was it the intent for them to kill the
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baby?
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It's unclear. So, that I cannot tell
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you.
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It's unclarified. However, what I will
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say is that it says that it's the judges
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determined, the husband determines. So
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God's not making the choice for us what
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to do with a person who does that to
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someone's child, does that to their own
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child, but it does say that if the woman
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is harmed her herself, not the child,
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then they are liable by God, their life
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for her life, their foot for her foot.
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So what I'm saying is if somebody needs
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an abortion for healthcare, let's say a
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woman's baby is not going to make it.
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And if the baby stays in her womb, she
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will die. And they refuse her an
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abortion. They refuse her that
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healthcare and she dies. Should the
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doctor be liable under God?
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First of all, this those instances don't
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happen. So let's just be clear. No. See,
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you guys are so propagandized by this.
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That only happens in a very rare case of
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the breaking of the uterine wall.
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So it does happen. But no, but where the
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baby is already dead and that's what the
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point is that the baby is already dead.
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That's a removal of a carcass of a baby
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still medically.
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No, it's not. That's incorrect. No, it's
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not. No, it's not. A removal of a
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carcass of a baby is not an abortion.
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Those are two technically different
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things. It is not a DNA. It is not. A
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DNA is something completely different.
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But then if you want to talk about
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scripture, do you think we are bound to
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all 613
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Levitical laws?
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Yes. If you're a follower of the Bible,
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you cannot pick and choose what you
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follow.
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Oh, so so do you eat kosher?
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You cannot pick kosher.
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No.
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Well, I thought you were bound to all
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613 laws.
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I'm not perfect. I'm sinner. Everyone
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here is a sinner. But if
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are we bound to it? Do you think
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Christians should eat kosher?
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If you choose to follow the Bible, you
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cannot pick and choose what you call.
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Of course. But we do believe in a new
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new covenant, an old covenant. So
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there's three types of Old Testament
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laws, right? There's ceremonial, there's
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civil and moral. So ceremonial laws we
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do not honor. Civil, we consider moral,
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we absolutely do.
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Why do humans decide what to follow in
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God's word?
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Because Christ's word, it's not us. It's
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not humans. So Paul actually authored in
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the book of Colossians,
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that's a human,
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right? Inspired by the Holy Spirit,
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which wrote the Bible, the ordinances of
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Moses are nailed to the cross. Secondly,
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Christ our Lord repeated nine out of 10
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of the nine out of 10 of the ten
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commandments. And he said, "All the laws
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of the prophet hang upon the two
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teachings of Leviticus 19 and
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Deuteronomy 6." But now I equally have
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to challenge you with scripture. In Luke
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1,
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when Elizabeth came in contact with Mary
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and both were babies,
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what did it say that John the Baptist
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did?
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I cannot tell you that
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he leapt.
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Okay.
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Do non-babies leap?
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Um, I don't understand the question. I'm
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going to be honest.
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Is it if it isn't it a baby then worthy
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of protection if they're leaping?
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I suppose.
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And it was the Greek word brephos which
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literally means baby. Intentionally used
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throughout. Hold on. In Jeremiah it
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says, "I knew you before you were in the
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womb." In Psalm, I think 139. It's one
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of the most intricate verses about the
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detail of our formation process as human
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beings. And finally, because of science,
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because of biology, we know that human
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life begins at that spark of new DNA.
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And God says do not murder and it's
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incumbent on Christians to therefore
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protect that life.
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Okay. So my my biggest question is I'm
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not saying that all abortion is valid. I
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feel like that's up for everyone to
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decide. But in the most even if it's
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very small percentage in the very small
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percentage that a baby is alive but it
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has to be aborted for the sake of the
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mother. What do you think
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C-section? What is a C-section?
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A C-section is when you cut a mother's
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Why don't they do that instead of the
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abortion?
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Uh because it could be equally as
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dangerous.
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Wrong. It's much safer than an abortion
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and quicker.
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Do you have evidence?
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I mean yes. It's it's it's self-evident.
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Can you tell me?
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I mean again I I there's plenty of
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people evidence. He has plenty of people
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that are in medicine can tell you, but
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like to be very clear, think about it.
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Every hospital is equipped to do
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C-sections. You have to go to a specific
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place for an abortion. And a C-section,
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onethird out of everyone in this
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audience was born by C-section.
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C-sections save lives. They do not
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terminate lives. And so when they say we
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must abort the baby, thanks to modern
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technology, that's actually a false
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choice. You could take the baby out of
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the environment and try to save its life
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as a cescareian section. What if when
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the C-section happens, the baby's not
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able to survive on its own, no matter
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what?
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Okay. Well, then that's a separate
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circumstance. It's like saying if the
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baby has a heart attack after the
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C-section, that's not a reason not to
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terminate it.
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What do you mean?
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If you have to give everybody a chance
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at life, you don't kill the baby in the
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womb just because you think that it's
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going to well, it could hurt the mother.
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You take it out of that environment.
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Okay? But what I'm saying is if they
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take the baby out and they know it's not
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going to survive regardless.
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How do they know that post 22 weeks? You
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don't know that.
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There's miracles that happen every day
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in the neonatal in the neo hold on in
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the neonatal intensive care unit.
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There's miracles that happen every day
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in NICU.
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And I agree. There's definitely they
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don't know 100% for sure, but there's
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definitely probability through science,
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through biology that they know, hey,
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this is more likely going to happen.
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We don't do morals on probability.
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I'm not saying it's morality. I'm saying
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probability of a baby is going to
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survive or not.
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Doesn't matter. You don't terminate a
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life based on a probability of survival.
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Oh, you do?
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Interesting. You guys do you guys murder
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people based on probability of survival?
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Interesting. So, somebody on a
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ventilator should just be murdered. I
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mean, it's such incredible morality.
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Would you keep someone on a ventilator
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for the entire of everything else? Then
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it depends. There's two different
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things. There's no more and not yet.
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Once you reach the level of no more
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human human interventions can improve
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this person's life or bring them back to
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a full life, that is a separate moral
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decision than not yet. When a human
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being is at not yet, which they are in
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the womb, you must do everything you can
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to make sure they get life. When a human
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being is at no more, it's a completely
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separate moral dimension and decision to
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make. No more and not yet are are the
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ways to look at pro-life decisions. That
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make sense?
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Yes, that makes sense. Well, thank you
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for debating with me.
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We don't agree to disagree.
