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Charlie Kirk is the Founder and President of Turning Point USA, the largest and fastest growing conservative youth activist organization in the country with over 250,000 student members, over 150 full-time staff, and a presence on over 2,000 high school and college campuses nationwide. Charlie is also the Chairman of Students for Trump, which aims to activate one million new college voters on campuses in battleground states in the lead up to the 2020 presidential election. His social media reaches over 100 million people per month and according to Axios, he is one of the "top 10 most engaged" Twitter handles in the world. He is also the host of “The Charlie Kirk Show,” which regularly ranks among the top news shows on Apple podcast charts.
Cliff and Stuart Connly on Bringing the Gospel to University Campuses After Four Decades of Campus Ministry
Cliff and Stuart Knechtle have spent decades engaging with college students across America, bringing apologetics and the gospel to some of the nation's most secular campuses. In this conversation with Charlie Kirk, the father-son pastoral team discusses the dramatic shift they've witnessed in student culture, from questions about truth to overwhelming pain and nihilism. They share their approach to campus evangelism, the response to Cliff's appearance on Logan Paul's podcast, and why moral relativism remains the biggest barrier to faith among Gen Z. The Knechtles also address why America's Christian founding matters, how parents are losing their children to secularism before college even begins, and the critical importance of homeschooling in preserving faith.
Cliff and Stuart Knechtle represent a unique father-son ministry partnership spanning generations of campus outreach. Stuart Knechtle serves as associate pastor at Grace Community Church in New Canaan, Connecticut, where he works alongside his father. With a master's degree in Psychology and Divinity, Stuart combines these disciplines for apologetics outreach and evangelism across university campuses nationwide. Cliff Knechtle has been engaging students on college campuses for 42 years, describing himself as "an obnoxious twit who the Holy Spirit is changing." Together, they blend grace, love, and truth to communicate Christ's message in some of America's most hostile academic environments.
Their work often overlaps with political activism on campuses, including locations like the West Mall steps at UT where confrontational encounters are common. The Knechtles have visited hundreds of universities, engaging in open dialogue about faith, morality, and the existence of God with thousands of students who increasingly reject absolute truth.
The Generational Shift in Campus Culture
According to Stuart, the questions students ask have evolved dramatically over the past few decades. Thirty years ago, campus conversations centered on whether truth exists at all. Twenty years ago, students acknowledged truth might exist but wanted dialogue about what that truth might be. Today, the dominant theme is pain. Divorce rates, deaths from despair, depression, and anxiety are skyrocketing among college-age students. While classic questions about God's morality, slavery, and suffering remain common, the underlying emotional and psychological distress has intensified.
Stuart notes a particularly striking contradiction: the rise of happy nihilists. Students openly declare they're nihilists with no meaning or purpose in life, yet simultaneously embrace a "YOLO" (you only live once) mentality, claiming to be here for a good time. This philosophical incoherence reflects the deep confusion plaguing Gen Z, caught between inherited secular worldviews and the innate human need for meaning and transcendence.
The Campus Ministry Process
The Knechtles don't set up tables or solicit conversations. Instead, they receive invitations from student organizations at various universities. In earlier decades, Cliff had to initiate engagement by speaking publicly to draw crowds. Today, thanks to social media, substantial crowds often gather before they arrive, even at extremely secular schools like the University of Connecticut. These crowds are frequently hostile, creating an immediate atmosphere of confrontation and debate.
However, the Knechtles emphasize that evangelism alone is insufficient. Drawing lessons from Billy Graham's crusades, where statistics showed a high percentage of converts fell away within three weeks, they prioritize discipleship. They insist on working with campus organizations that commit to follow-up discipleship, not just one-time speaking events. The goal is helping students stay in the faith by grounding them in specific Scripture and Biblical understanding, not just emotional experiences or vague spiritual feelings.
The Logan Paul Podcast Experience
Cliff's appearance on Logan Paul's podcast presented a unique evangelistic opportunity to reach millions who rarely hear the gospel. Logan opened the conversation with disarming honesty: "I am not a Christian, but maybe by the end of this podcast I will be." Cliff found him genuine and vulnerable, contrary to his reputation for simply poking holes in arguments without sincere engagement.
Logan's primary objection was the exclusivity of Christianity. The idea that good Jews, Muslims, and Hindus need to accept Christ struck him as narrow, bigoted, and intolerant. Cliff responded by pointing out that every religious or philosophical position makes exclusive truth claims. Saying "all paths lead to God" is itself a truth claim that declares the majority of Muslims, Christians, and Jews wrong. Saying half of religions are right and half are wrong is also a truth claim. When Jesus declares "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through me," He's making a truth claim that deserves examination on its evidential merits.
Cliff emphasized that making a truth claim doesn't automatically mean you're arrogant or intolerant. Claiming one plus one equals two is a truth claim, but it's not arrogance—it's reality. The question shouldn't be whether someone is making an exclusive claim, but whether the evidence supports that claim being true. Logan's mother attended the entire podcast recording, holding out her cross toward them the entire time, clearly hoping to influence her sons Jake and Logan toward faith. Despite Logan's pushback against his mother's beliefs, he engaged for over an hour, demonstrating genuine wrestling with these questions.
The Core Barrier: Moral Relativism
Both Cliff and Stuart identify moral relativism as the primary intellectual barrier preventing Gen Z from accepting Christ. The dominant Western philosophy that "all religions are true" permeates campus culture. Students frequently use illustrations like the elephant story, where blind men touch different parts of an elephant and each thinks they're touching something different. The implication is that all religions are just grasping different parts of God.
Stuart points out the fatal flaw in this analogy: if the people touching the elephant are blind, then someone claiming to see the whole picture is asserting tremendous spiritual vigilance and superiority. That person is saying, "I'm the one who's not blind, and I can see you're all just grabbing different parts." This position is not only spiritually elitist but also rejects the exclusive truth claims of 95% of the world's population. Most religions make mutually exclusive claims that cannot all be simultaneously true.
However, Cliff believes the deeper issue beneath the intellectual objections is moral. He shares the experience of his younger brother at Princeton University, who would engage in late-night apologetics discussions with classmates. Around midnight, his brother would ask: "If you're just asking these questions honestly, we can pull an all-nighter. But if the real issue is that you want to sleep around and cheat on your next exam because of the pressure to get into medical school, let's be honest." Every single time, his Princeton classmates admitted the real issue wasn't intellectual—it was moral. They wanted to live without constraints, and accepting Christian truth claims would require lifestyle changes they weren't willing to make.
The Impossibility of Living Out Moral Relativism
Cliff argues that moral relativism is not only false but impossible to live consistently. He points to extreme examples: if morality is truly relative, then the person who attempted to assassinate President Trump and killed another person was simply living out his own definition of truth. Sex traffickers could claim their actions are morally neutral because morality is relative. No one actually believes this or lives this way.
Even as children, humans demonstrate an innate understanding of moral absolutes. When a sibling gets more ice cream, children don't say "that's cool"—they say "that's not fair." When a spouse becomes physically abusive, no one says "that felt good, do it again"—they say "you should not do that, you ought not to do that." These responses reveal that humans cannot escape moral categories and obligations. The language of fairness, justice, rights, and wrongs permeates human existence because God has written His moral law on human hearts.
Stuart takes a different but complementary approach, emphasizing the practical consequences of promiscuity and moral relativism. He references research from Yale authors who documented the clear statistical correlation between promiscuity and serious mental health problems, especially for women. Men can sometimes disconnect emotionally from the physical aspects of casual sex, but women generally cannot. The data also shows drastic increases in divorce rates among those who were sexually promiscuous before marriage.
Beyond statistics, Stuart focuses on making Christ more attractive than the temporary pleasures of sin. When people find their identity in jobs, relationships, or sexual experiences, they will ultimately be crushed and disappointed. Following St. Augustine's concept of "ordered loves," Stuart explains that placing God at the top of one's priorities leads to incredible flourishing. God offers unconditional love, grace despite failings, and a foundation that cannot be shaken—unlike any earthly pursuit or relationship.
America's Christian Founding
When asked about the claim that America was not founded on Christian principles, Charlie Kirk provided an extensive response demolishing this revisionist narrative. He noted that 9 out of 13 original states required a declaration of faith to serve in government, and 13 out of 13 required some form of religious declaration. Pennsylvania's constitution explicitly stated "I profess Lord Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior." Of the 56 original signers of the Declaration of Independence, 55 were Bible-believing, church-attending Christians.
Common law, far from being secular, derives from Blackstone, who was Christian. The principles of common law—presumption of innocence, due process, and trial by jury of peers—are all biblical concepts rooted in the principle from Leviticus 19 that justice should not favor the rich or the poor. This concept of blind justice is distinctly Western and biblical, not Enlightenment or secular in origin.
The Declaration of Independence mentions God four times, and the final paragraph reads as a prayer: "We appeal to the Supreme Judge of the universe," referring to Jesus Christ as described in Revelation as the one who will judge the earth. The book of Deuteronomy was the most quoted source, religious or non-religious, during the founding period—cited more than John Locke, Montesquieu, or Blackstone. Deuteronomy, Moses's farewell address containing laws and guidance for governance, directly influenced American constitutional thought.
John Adams stated clearly: "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." The body politic of America was so thoroughly Christian and Protestant that the structure of government was built specifically for a Christian population. This explains why America currently faces a constitutional crisis: we have a Christian form of government designed for a Christian people, but we are no longer a Christian nation. Liberty cannot exist without a Christian population to sustain it.
The concept of separation of church and state does not appear in the Constitution. It comes from a single letter Thomas Jefferson wrote in 1807 to the Danbury Baptist Convention in Massachusetts, assuring them the government would not interfere with the church—the opposite of how the phrase is used today. This letter was resurrected by the Warren and Burger Courts in the 1960s and treated as if it were constitutional text. The First Amendment's Establishment Clause states that "Congress shall make no law prohibiting the free exercise thereof," primarily intended to prevent a single denomination like Presbyterian, Anglican, or Quaker from dominating federal government.
One of the first acts of Congress was taxpayer-funded Bible printing and distribution. Church services were held in the Supreme Court building as late as the Jackson presidency in the 1820s. The founders placed Leviticus 25:10 on the Liberty Bell: "Proclaim liberty throughout the land." They chose Leviticus specifically, not Psalms, Proverbs, or Genesis. This selection reveals their biblical foundation and understanding of true liberty.
The claim that America's founders were Enlightenment deists who happened to use common law is a sinister, unsubstantiated lie that collapses under any academic scrutiny. This lie persists because acknowledging America's Christian roots points toward the nation's best hope for revival and a great future. If Americans return to their Christian foundations, renewal becomes possible. Therefore, secularists must deny this history to maintain their cultural power.
Addressing Grief and Suffering
When a young man named Ridge asked about coping with the loss of his 18-year-old brother in October, Cliff provided pastoral wisdom grounded in both honesty and hope. He began by acknowledging that death is terrible, referencing 1 Corinthians 15 where Paul calls death "the last enemy." Christians should not accept death as merely "part of nature." That's why we fund hospitals and practice medicine—because we are against death and for life, as Jesus said: "I have come that you might have life and have it to the full."
Cliff emphasized the importance of honesty and vulnerability within the family. Ridge admitted that while some days are good, other days bring intense anger that affects his relationships with his wife and family. Cliff affirmed this honesty and called on the family to be patient with each other and love each other through these hard times. Processing grief is not linear or simple.
Drawing on his own experience, Cliff shared the most difficult day of his life: walking around a field in Madison, Wisconsin, with his brother, a transplant surgeon, who was pouring out his heart about the death of his seven-year-old daughter in a car accident. A babysitter ran a stop sign, and a pickup truck traveling 55 miles per hour smashed into their car, sending his niece into an early grave. Cliff admitted he doesn't know why God allowed that tragedy. Anyone who claims to have easy answers to such questions is foolish.
The answer to suffering begins with patience, love, and commitment to one another during painful times. Comfort, Cliff explained, is fundamentally about presence. Being together as a family is crucial, and even more important is God's presence. This is where theological discussions become intensely practical—it's no longer about having good answers to difficult questions but about experiencing the presence of Jesus Christ during suffering.
At 70 years old, Cliff admits he's still working on knowing God's presence more deeply. He found it deeply troubling when Time Magazine published a cover story about Mother Teresa's struggles with doubt, suggesting she didn't have "real faith." This narrative misunderstands that depression and loneliness are real experiences, even for the most faithful believers, especially when life delivers brutal blows.
Cliff pointed to Philippians 3:10, where Paul writes: "I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings." Christians worship a suffering God who was brutally beaten and nailed to a wooden cross. This God can connect with human suffering because He experienced it. He's not distant or detached but intimately acquainted with pain and grief.
Ultimately, believers have the solution to suffering and death: eternal life in heaven where there will be no more stillbirths, cancer, heart failure, or children killed in car accidents. Cliff challenged atheists and agnostics to accompany him into a hospital room where a child's body is being destroyed by terminal cancer. What will they do? Wave their fists at God and blame Him? That's a copout, misplaced blame. As a follower of Christ, Cliff can walk to the other side of the bed, hold the child's hand, seek to comfort them, and offer something more: a suffering God who genuinely cares about death and grief, who wants to comfort and wrap His arms around those who hurt. Jesus Christ is the solution to the very real problem of suffering and death.
The Crisis of Biblical Worldview Formation
A pastor from outside Detroit raised concerns about losing young people to secularism. After dinner with George Barna, the research expert told him that churches aren't losing college students during the college years—they're losing them much earlier. Worldview is developed by age 11. While God designed three institutions (family, church, and government), He gave the primary responsibility to parents to raise their children. The question is how these institutions can support parents in establishing biblical worldview before children reach adolescence.
Stuart responded with alarming statistics: 75% of Christian high schoolers turn away from the faith when they enter college. Fortunately, 40% return after college, but the 75% departure rate is catastrophic. The Knechtles focus on college students precisely because these young people weren't adequately prepared by their parents during high school. This failure isn't only about lacking intellectual tools to defend the faith, though that's significant. More fundamentally, parents—especially fathers—failed to mentor their children and demonstrate what objective right and wrong looks like.
Even more troubling, 80% of pastors' kids turn away from the faith and never return. This happens because their fathers, who are pastors, spend more time with congregants than with their own children and often fail to practice what they preach. Stuart credits being part of the 20% who retained his faith to his father Cliff, who practiced what he preached and invested enormous time with his children. Cliff received endless invitations to speak nationally and internationally but chose to become a pastor and prioritize time with his sons rather than traveling constantly.
The solution begins with fathers absolutely, but also mothers, engaging in intentional mentoring that provides a firm foundation of true right and wrong—exactly what America's founders did. Liberalism, by contrast, offers no objective morality. Students raised in this vacuum emerge screaming without knowing what they're screaming about. They have no framework for right and wrong, leading to absurd positions like claiming drug use is healthy. Without moral foundations, society descends into chaos.
Stuart noted that even in philosophy departments at top universities, the intellectual tide is turning. About 50% of philosophers now affirm God's existence, up from just 10% twenty years ago. Meanwhile, religious departments—even at Bible Belt schools like Mississippi State—are often staffed by secular liberals who teach agnosticism or vague notions of a "higher power" rather than biblical truth. Parents must equip their children intellectually to push back against these influences.
The Homeschool Renaissance
Charlie Kirk called for a renaissance of homeschooling, arguing the solution is fixable but requires sacrifice and commitment. The common excuses for not homeschooling don't hold up under scrutiny. First, parents claim they don't know how to homeschool. This is an exceptionally weak argument—parents successfully taught their children to talk and handled fundamental early education. Numerous organizations exist to supplement homeschool curricula and provide support.
The second excuse is financial: homeschooling requires one parent to stay home, forcing the family to live on a single income. Charlie points out a glaring contradiction: parents willingly go into debt or allow their children to go into debt for college, but won't make financial sacrifices to homeschool. Why would families accept debt for their child to study "North African lesbian poetry at Arizona State University" but refuse to make sacrifices to educate their children in truth during formative years? No one has a satisfactory answer.
The third reality is that many parents in the general population are simply lazy. They're not doing their job and want someone else to do it for them. Modern culture promotes the idea that parents are more important than their children, that parenting is merely a part-time responsibility alongside personal career fulfillment. The consequences of this selfishness are now undeniable.
Stuart raised an important historical question: How does the homeschool movement avoid repeating the mistakes of 1929, when Christians abandoned the halls of power at major universities? Fundamentalist Christians became terrified of Darwinian evolution and secular influence, retreating into isolated communities and ceding cultural authority. Stuart, who was homeschooled through sixth grade, asked how to balance congregating together to grow faith while ensuring Christians don't surrender power and influence in cultural institutions.
Charlie responded that protecting children up to a certain age is both wise and necessary. He doesn't know the exact age, but sixth grade might be appropriate. However, he would never place an eight-year-old in a government school under current conditions. The goal isn't to cloisters children forever but to domicile them away from toxic culture during vulnerable years, then prepare them for battle. When they're sent out, they must be deeply grounded in faith and fully aware of what's coming. Protecting the innocence of children is biblical and necessary. By age 11, worldview is largely formed; sixth grade corresponds to ages 12-13, making it a reasonable transition point.
The ramifications of throwing young children to the lions are catastrophic, as the statistics demonstrate. Balancing protection during formative years with eventual cultural engagement is essential for raising a generation capable of both preserving faith and influencing society.
Video Transcript
cliff and Stuart connal welcome guys thank you Char Charlie so uh for some
audience members that might not be aware introduce yourselves go ahead all right so I'm
Stuart Conley I am associate pastor at Grace Community Church in new Kanan Connecticut I get the pleasure of
working with this guy he's nice enough to have me on his team and then we also do apologetics Outreach evangelism
together on University campuses across the country and sometimes I notice we overlap like UT I
think where you got the water bottle thrown at you like the West Mall steps right there he's been there for like 55
years so and then we combine those together so I I've got a master in Psychology and
Divinity so I try and use those to really do Outreach at our church and Beyond so that's kind of come from and
you've been doing this for 42 years yeah easy Charlie got the number yeah brother
you're right I'm I'm getting up there I'm Cliff kle I'm an obnoxious twit who
the holy spirit is changing and I try and combine the grace and love and truth
of Christ and communicate on University campuses and at the church where steuart and I get to pastor and I get to be this
guy's dad so I'm an awful proud dad that's that's amazing so you've been doing this on campuses for a while kind
of similar to what I do somewhat from a political standpoint but we're unafraid to to talk about the deeper things more
important things talk talk about that I mean that's yeah sure I will you know why I like
him because he hasn't made the mistake of elevating politics over faith in
Christ
okay obviously we can slip into a type of nationalism that is raw raw raw
country and leave God out of the equation that is lethal and what Charlie does in a way that I've come to respect
is because I've been uh confronted by more and more of this type of issue is he puts Christ at
the center God is the basis of your world view and then because of that you
respect your country you're very grateful for what our foremothers and forefathers have done in putting this
country together and you want to return it to the judeo-christian ethic that was the foundation of this family this
country even though we're well aware of the fact that many of the founding mothers and fathers were Das and no
we're not deas we believe in a personal God Who's involved in our lives today not in a distant God who remains aloof
so we disagree with thas Jefferson with a Jeffersonian Bible but we're very grateful for the judeo-christian ethic
ethics that our forefathers and foremothers held to so tightly well thank you for that and
so I I have you seen let's just talk in the last couple of years both of you
visiting campuses be interesting to hear you say what are you hearing what are you seeing have things changed in recent
years talk about Trends I think our audience would be interested in that so
30 years ago I was a little young but from what I hear it was is there truth
and then 20 years ago it was okay there's truth maybe lowercase maybe
uppercase but what is this truth let's have a dialogue today it's all right I'm in a lot of pain I think you may have
mentioned it and your one of your talks divorce rates death from despair depression anxiety
skyrocketing and so that's the trend I've seen some of the very similar questions is God a moral monster slavery
why does God allow suffering all of those are are pretty much the same and similar but I think I think the growth
again in pain whether that's psychological relational oftentimes that's connected to nihilism because
somebody who doesn't believe in God it's I have no objective meaning and purpose I came on was an accident accidental
birth and I'm going nowhere and my favorite is when I actually see happy nius because it's the biggest
contradiction probably out there that we see on college campuses but literally we will have students come up to us and say
I'm anilist I have no meaning and purpose in my life but hey I'm here you know YOLO I'm here for a good time not a
long time and so that's that's the new narrative I think we see so can you want
to comment on that Cliff as far as Trends things you've seen sure and and talk about the process of how you do
this on campuses I I'd just be personally interested to hear that you bet um I am not here to butter him up
okay in fact I don't like talking about people all right but but guys for 44
years I've been staying standing up on University campuses dialoguing with students now I am committed to pointing
people to God's existence therefore morality is not subjective there are few moral absolutes
therefore The Logical conclusion is not despair There's Hope because there's a God who has eternal life in heaven for
all who trust in his son Jesus all right now I don't feel comfortable going into
the political Arena that's why I respect what he's doing it's very hard to communicate
Christ and then also to challenge people to think okay what are the ramifications of your belief in Christ especially
politically especially culturally that gets real hard and one of the reasons it's hard is because we don't all agree
right you go around in this room and I don't think we're all going to agree on everything that's where tolerance comes in tolerance is not an atheist and I
agree no we don't agree tolerance is although you are an atheist I respect
you and we're going to have an intelligent dialogue now that's what he does and that's what we try and do intelligent dialogue guys that's what a
liberal arts education is all about a free exchange of ideas where we don't necessarily agree but we communicate
respectfully and we explain why we believe what we believe what's the evidence of whatever it is you believe
is true so that's the kind of thing that we want the most important thing is always Jesus the second most important
thing is making sure that we could talk about Jesus and worship Jesus which is increasingly more difficult so so talk
about the process you guys set up a table on campus people come up and talk to you um for the audience that might
not be aware yes so we've never set up a table we get invited by different
student organizations and we go back in the day he would have to start which is that's that's the Bold part right you
have to speak and somehow find a way to get people to stop and actually engage but now thankfully God has used social
media in a big way so when we go there's already a very big crowd even at very secular schools like Yukon very hostile
crowd so that that's how we start we get invited by different organizations we show up they often times will start the
crowd but then it'll gather and grow very quickly then we go about debate and
then we go about connecting with as many students as possible but the important part I think you were kind of getting to there in your second part is
discipleship we don't want to go sadly Billy Graham we're huge Billy Graham fans but if you look statistically when
he would do his Crusades a very high percentage of people after three weeks would turn away from the faith the alter
calls fruit so what we try and do is we make sure these organizations on their Outreach nights where we speak at and
that'll have a lot of students show up but we don't want there just to be an event that we speak at at at the end of the week we say guys we are here not
just to evangelize we need discipleship so these students will stay in the faith
and understand what real scripture is when you went to Genesis 22 for example last night like specific scripture this
is what we need it can't just be this type of higher power oh yeah I'm a Christian now now but I just never read the Bible so that that's part of the
process so um the it's very important you went on Logan Paul's podcast which
I'm sure you you got a couple emails and things from that talk about that experience what an amazing way that God
used you to reach a population that has not heard the
gospel all right so here are some of the challenges I really respect Logan Paul
he began our time together by saying I am not a Christian but maybe by the to
this podcast I will be no pressure yeah yeah I mean that kind of honesty and
vulnerability goodness gracious that's cool I found him to be a very nice guy and it was fascinating his sticking
point his sticking point was you got to be kidding me good Jews and good Muslims
and good Hindus they need to accept Christ I mean that just is too narrow that's just too bigoted it's too
intolerant and so what I was trying to help him see was if I say that every
path leads to God that's a truth claim I'm saying majority of Muslims the majority of humanity which is Muslims
Christians and Jews they're wrong every path leads to Heaven that's a truth claim if I say you half the religions
and philosophies of the world lead to Heaven that's a truth claim I'm saying half are right and half are wrong that is a truth claim and when Jesus says I
am the way the truth and the life no one comes to the father except through me that's also a truth claim he's saying
you've got to put your faith in me I am the way to heaven so let's be real honest we all make truth claims let's
not sit back sit back and act like Oh I'm a really open-minded really tolerant person because I say all paths lead to
Heaven All paths lead to God no you're making a truth claim and I can promise
you if I say that 1 plus 1 equals 2 I'm not necessarily being arrogant now I might be arrogant but just to make a
truth claim does not mean you're being arrogant and intolerant it means this is my take on reality you better ask me
what's the evidence that your take on reality is true and I'm going to ask you the same question and what is your take
on reality what's the evidence that your take on reality is true so so kind of
tell us about the discussion you had with him and either one of you the response that you
received I thought he was really genuine he gets pegged for trying to just to poke holes and then walk away but I
thought he was genuine I mean he did ask questions like will animals be in heaven and you know the lion will lie down with
the Sheep so I believe that animals will be in heaven literally he would ask questions like why Jesus amongst other
religions he would he said he got burned a few times by Christians who were so
judgmental about other faiths and so we dug into that a little bit but you know
his mom was sitting there the whole time and I guess his mom typically doesn't show up but she showed up for us and she
held her cross out the entire time kind of pointing it to pointing it to us and
I I think that shows her obvious desire to get her sons him and Jake really
thinking about the faith and moving towards the faith so that was a very
very interesting part of it because he would he would really come after mainly really went after you I tried to more of
the emotional connection and and yet at the same time I think at at the end of the time he was a genuine he was
genuinely wrestling and and yet he would turn to his mom and try and again push
back on her faith so it's fascinating Dynamics but offset yet again there was still an hour of time where he wanted to
connect so but the his his objection was that Christianity is too true or
something or that too narrow too narrow yeah I'm I'm being fous I just that's good I mean like to too narrow I I
don't understand the the objection there like what what what would that
that apparently he's just saying that God no way that God would allow this to
happen that God would not send a son or what what would his CU I didn't watch
the entire either interview all right who here has a problem with the idea of
God being angry all right well Logan has a problem with God being angry and guess what so
do a lot of Americans you know God is love God doesn't get angry the wrath of God I mean how primitive you really
believe that yeah I sure do believe that you know why because I promise you that if one of you
kidnaps one of my little granddaughters I'm going to be real angry and guess what if I'm not angry my
granddaughter doesn't matter to me not with a selfish anger but with a righteous indignation is God angry yes
he is not with a selfish anger oh you've offended me oh you reigned on my party
no none of that with a righteous indignation of how we dehumanize each other that's sin racism is dehumanizing
sexism is dehumanizing sexually exploiting someone is dehumanizing she's not a Barbie doll
she's a human being created in the image of God don't use her sexually greed
dehumanizing your money is more important than you are I want your money coveting dehumanizing and so God is
angry because we dehumanize each other and God has created us not to dehumanize each other but to respect each other to
love each other so when you visit campuses is that the most common sticking point that the path is too
narrow if you had to really bring it down what is the limiting current belief of gen Z when confronted with the truth
that prevents them from accepting Jesus what would that be yeah moral relativism for sure and this white Western adopted
philosophy which is all religions are true and how dare you say that you have the right religion so they will say look
at the elephant look at all paths lead up to the Mountaintop so all religions are are just grabbing one's grabbing the
ear one's grabbing the foot of the elephant one's grabbing the trunk and see you guys are all just grabbing part
of God and yet what they don't get is well those people are blind so they don't realize they're grabbing parts of
the elephant well okay then someone has tremendous vigilance and spiritual
superiority to say I'm the one who's not blind and I see Charlie grabbing the
trunk so he's Buddhist I see Cliff grabbing the foot so he's Hindu so you guys are all idiot
all gods are the same what you don't realize is you are not only spiritually
elitist but you are also rejecting the exclusive truth claims of 95% of the
world so that's one of the biggest challenges would you agree with that is that the the core objection you got you
receive yeah and now let's be real honest I think it really comes down to I want to sleep with whoever I want to sleep with well that's a separate issue
though but the meaning that they don't meaning that they won't believe it if it's true that's turx line would you
believe Christianity if it was true right and most people would not because it would change their life correct and
so therefore the reason I reject Christ is for a moral reason and then I hide behind the intellectual reason but if
you push comes to shove I mean my younger brother went to Princeton University and at Princeton he used to share Christ with his roommates late
into the night around about midnight he turned to his Princeton classmates and say guys if you're just going to ask these questions we'll pull on all
nighter if if this is honest but if the real issue is I want to sleep around and I want to Che she on my next exam because the pressure to get into mid
school is intense let's be honest and every single time his Prince and classmates would say Stuart you're correct this is not an intellectual
problem it's a moral issue course and he would say guys wait we don't have to pull an all nighter good night have a good night's sleep so then how then do
you overcome that if at all I think it's for me it's it's
getting rather simple the older the older I get you know morality is relative which
means the guy who took a whack at president Trump and killed another guy it's all relative that's his definition
of truth and the trade traffic well you know it's all relative so if you don't
if you're upset about it fine but I kind of enjoy it and Truth is relative you know something you can't
live that out because even when you were a little kid if your sibling got more ice cream in their ice cream bowl than
you did in your ice cream bowl what would you say oh that's cool no You' say
that's not fair and if you're married and your spouse takes a whack at you you don't say oh that felt good honey why
don't you do that again no you say you should not do that you ought not to do that it is impossible to live out moral
relativism doesn't work is do you find that to be persuasive to the students you talk to I take a different route
that's probably the better route I take the roote though of look statistically two guys from Yale wrote this book
premarital sex in America and promiscuity is is directly correlated with serious mental health problems
especially for women men for some reason are able to cut off their emotion sexually from the physical side and just
live out their their physical well-being of of shagging any woman they possibly can but there's clear breakdown as well
these Yale authors are writing showing that there's a drastic increase in divorce if you're sleeping around as
well but again you can go there yeah but the best answer is making Christ more
attractive than just I'm going to Shag the next thing or person with a pulse
that I possibly can and if Jesus is more attractive in the way where he says I
love you unconditionally no matter your failings I offer you Grace you know it's the whole idea of your job can't die for
you your job if you find your identity in it you're going to be ultimately crushed if you find your identity in
your wife you're going to be ultimately crushed it's St Augustine's ordered loves if you put God at the top you will
live a life of incredible flourishing so that's that's kind of where I going yeah and I I want to get some questions here
in a second I visit college campuses as you guys do and I get the spicier encounters at times I'm sure you you
guys get them as well but but what's so fascinating is that I'll come and talk primarily about politics but as you well
know I always share the gospel whenever it comes up but inevitably almost always if I go and I have a a table and that
what I want to talk about for the day never remains and whe it could be about immigration it could be about about that
there are no genders and two Sexes and unlimited personalities you know whatever it is within minutes they are
asking me well are you religious because they have been so trained and conditioned because they
want to get down into where is this coming from because if if you're saying
something that's true and they think about it they say well is is there do you think there's a
God that's telling you this because they they want a moral license to live as
they want to live um but what I found is that almost all of these conversations
yield back to some moral standard at some point and they'll many college
students and even College professors will deny the fact that there is a moral standard but they're living up to some
standard at some point so someone tells them that murder is wrong or murder is evil or theft is wrong they say oh
that's just common sense I we just know that I I I I I know that murder is wrong I I I I understand that why we have so
many murderers then if everyone knows that it's wrong so do you guys encounter that as well that it gets down to the
deeper issues rather quickly yes it definitely gets down to the deeper issues rather quickly when
you have the privilege of talking with thinking people and people have to think I mean I
very grateful that over 290 times in the gospels Jesus asks questions and this
whole idea that faith is anti-intellectual faith is anti-rational Faith is antil
logical that's a naive Blind Faith and Christ does not call us to a naive Blind
Faith does he call us to a something you can prove no to prove means to show it
cannot be another way I can't prove Charlie that I'm not just a bad dream you're having right now maybe your
eyesight is flipping out on you and you're having this weird dream of Cliff so I can't prove it but the overwhelming
evidence is you're having and I are having this conversation now that's why we behave the way we do so we've got to
use our minds and ask ourselves what does the evidence point to as being true
I do not think the universe is religiously ambiguous I think God has left more than
enough evidence for any thinking person to believe in him that's why anthropology shows us that around the
world every culture has some type of religion yeah atheism is is the vast
minority of a new age belief oh yeah so Daisy let's start doing some questions here um how can people uh who who has
questions by the way Daisy will find you um how can first just plug how guys people can support you on the podcast oh
yeah okay so Instagram uh it's just Stuart connly so Stuart unor connly s to
u a t and then KN and ctle and then Tik Tok is Stuart connly
and then um YouTube our main channel is give me an answer with Stuart and Cliff connly so those are our main three um so
thank you for the support we haven't started a podcast yet but we got to do that all right yes
ma'am hi my name is Jordan huge fan um so my question is that first I am not a
cessationist and I do think that it is important to study to show yourself approved and I'm curious to know how do
we test the spirit and allow God to minister through the apostolic and the prophetic while also studying and
ensuring that we do not become super like religious and legalistic so um can you repeat the
question sorry the audio is kind of funny so no worries I'm basically trying to understand how we test the spirit
allow God to move in the apostolic and the prophetic while also studying our word and not becoming overly religious
and legalistic so how do we test the spirit did you get did you get that yeah yeah
so in order to test the spirit you always have to remain tied to scripture as well as prayer and it has to be done
humbly because to your point you're kind of going there we immediately so so I've had I I lead our small groups at our
church and one time this person stepped into our small group she came from another church and she said oh you guys
don't speak in tongues here you guys are barely Believers you're B you know baby Believers I speak in tongues and I got a
clear pathway and direct call to God the father so obviously the testing of the
spirit has to start with the greatest Christian virtue which I believe is humility and you are asking of scripture
you're asking of God but then you have to be in a healthy Christian Community and I believe a small group as well to
hold you accountable to say yes you're walking in line with the spirit or you're walking in line with the Flesh
and I love that you went here in terms of the pride issue too because I personally believe that when neber for
example the great Theologian said that you will grow quickest in going against
the spirit and quickest in Pride if you become religious more so than any atheist but because there's something
about religion that if it's in a Petri dish it will make you a person who's fundamentalist and always looking down
on others and we see this with the Pharisees right as opposed to the god of the universe sending his one and only son becoming a slave dying on a cross
for us then we respond in such a way we're walking in line of the spirit next question
yes well it's awesome to have hello it's awesome to have so you know so many
goats in the same room so thank you for being here um so I was articulated
Yesterday by a couple of my friends that our country was not founded on Christian principles um so I I want to see how
like an argument that you guys can give me to combat that so essentially they articulated to me that our country was
found on common law uh because the Declaration only refers to God four times and the Constitution doesn't refer
to God at all and it only articulates the structure of government um and does
is common law chrisan in nature or is it not I I can take it first
so I this guy does whoever said that doesn't really know what they're talking about so first of all um remember that
we were a collection of states and colonies and you need to read the state constitutions before anything else N Out
of 13 of the original states required you to be a Bible believing Christian to serve in government at the time the founding you
could even in P actually 13 out of 13 required a declaration of Faith 9 out of 13 required you to be a Protestant
except Maryland which was Catholic which still required a declaration of faith in almost every single one of the original
state constitutions Pennsylvania included they had I profess Lord and Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior in
the original state constitutions so you remember we're collection of States before that secondly 55 out of 56 of the
original signers of the Declaration were Bible believing Church attending Christians you ask about common law so common law is inherited from Blackstone
who was Christian a common law is an outgrowth of the scriptures so let's go to three principles of common law
presumption of innocence due process and jury of your peers all three are biblical principles so and all wrapped
into the ultimate biblical principle that you shall not favor Justice if you are rich or or poor which is in
Leviticus 19 right before most famous part of Leviticus 19 which is that you should love your neighbor as yourself
but before that is that in the administ ation of Justice you shall not favor the rich or the poor which is the idea of
Blind Justice we get that in the west which is incorporated also in the New Testament ideal neither slave nor Greek
nor Jew you are all one in Jesus Christ which we got the idea of human equality these are all biblical ideas they're not Enlightenment ideas which is they kind
of get conflated at the time but more importantly than that they say that God was only mentioned four times in the
Declaration of Independence well that's a big deal okay laws of nature and Nature's God the last paragraph of the
Declaration reads as a prayer it says we appeal to the Supreme judge of the universe who's the judge of the universe
Jesus Christ as it says in Revelation that Jesus Will judge the Earth on his throne this so in the Declaration they
were praying to Christ Our Lord as a prayer very specifically thirdly as I
set on stage yesterday Deuteronomy was by far the most quoted book religious or non-religious in the time of the
founding when they were putting together Constitution more than John Lock more than montue more than Blackstone so the
book of Deuteronomy which talked about laws Customs Traditions it was Moses Fair address as he's you know about to
say goodbye say hey good luck in Canaan guys here's how you should set up your form of government but finally and most
importantly let's look at actually what the founders said John Adams seemlessly said the Constitution was only written
for a moral and religious people it was wholly inadequate for the people of any other the body politic of America was so
Christian and was so Protestant that our form and structure of government was built for the people that believed in
Christ Our Lord one of the reasons we're living through a constitutional crisis is that we no longer have a Christian
Nation but we have a Christian form of government and they're incompatible so you cannot have Liberty if you do not
have a Christian population so that that's just that's just a surface level
belief so then they'll go to the First Amendment which is has two two parts of the First Amendment which get conflated
first of all separation church and state is not in the US Constitution that is a single letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote in 1807 to the danur Baptist
convention in Massachusetts assuring them that the government would not come after the church okay which is the
opposite of what they would say however That Was Then resurrected by the Warren courtt and the burger Court in the 60s where they said hey you know all of a
sudden we're now going to make this as if it's the Constitution it does say in the Constitution two things which is The Establishment Clause and the free free
expression Clause The Establishment Clause is that Congress shall make no law prohibiting the free exercise
thereof what they were most worried about was a presbyterian or a Anglican
or a Quaker type religion taking over the federal government instead it was that there is not going to be a
state-run religion or a state-run government did you know that one of the first acts of Congress was taxpayer
funded Bible Printing and distribution did you know that there were church services held in the Supreme
Court building as late as the Jackson presidency in the 1820s but going back
to this idea of separation church and state and again I could Riff on this at at nauseum because it's just so ridiculous right is that it's not
biblical because first it's not biblical it's not constitutional because you go a layer deeper people that even say that
do you believe in separation of moral Morality In State nobody does so all laws are reflection of morality and all
morality comes from somewhere there is no such thing as neutral morality and we believe what the founders believed because they put it in the halls of
Congress they put it in the Supreme Court and they put it all throughout the country which is that the decalogue The Ten Commandments is the core morality of
how a society and a civilization should exist right the the Ten Commandments of every person and finally and this is the
kicker if the founding fathers were not Bible believing Church churchend Christians why did they put Leviticus on
the Liberty Bell not John not Psalms not Proverbs not Genesis Leviticus most
Americans can't spell Leviticus Leviticus 2519 Proclaim Liberty throughout the land of which you are in
it is one of the most Sinister most unsubstantiated lies that does not come up against any sort of academic scrutiny
this idea that founding fathers were a bunch of Enlightenment common law deists the reason they hate it is because if
they the reason they must say this is that if we actually go back to our Christian Roots and we go back to where
we once were it's America's best hope for Revival and for a great [Applause]
future you want to add to that anything that sorry that covered it that was pretty impressive I can't touch that
beautifully put yeah
okay is it working yeah okay hey guys big fan I know I ran into my name is
Ridge I'm here with my wife and my younger brother and some of my our best friends I know I ran into you too last
night but just want to elaborate on that a little bit about that tragedy and ask a question um and Charlie I haven't had
the pleasure of meeting you yet but I we lost our uh 18-year-old brother back in
October to an accident in our front yard and we're constantly told like oh you guys might be might have to move on you
guys might need to kind of like put it in the past it happened get over it and we do have really good days where we get
to share his story share the gospel but with those good days there's also some really really bad days where anger comes
out and I mean I might get mad at my wife I might get mad at the family at the kids what's your advice and what do you
have to say about how to cope with those really bad days that we have all of us
collectively being really close to him after his loss all right I'm really sorry for your
lost brother it stinks and that's one of the reasons I'm so glad that in 1 Corinthians 15 Paul writes death is The
Last Enemy I am sick and tired of hearing people say oh death is just part of nature so just accept it no I don't
accept death that's why we fund hospitals that's why we do medicine because we are against death and we're
for life and that's what Jesus said I've come that you might have life and have it to the
full second Point all right wife and brother and family you've heard the man
say I'm hurting and at time I'm okay but at other times I get really angry okay he's
been honest right he's been honest with all of us he's been vulnerable so now we got to be patient
with each other right we got to love each other through the hard times and it's a hard time you're passing through
the most difficult day of my life was when my 7-year-old niece was knocked into a early grave in a horrible car
accident and I had to go out to Madison Wisconsin where my brother who's a transplant surgeon at W Madison was
transplanting kidneys and livers and I had to walk with him around a field behind his home in Madison
Wisconsin and he's pouring out his heart to me about the death of his seven-year-old
daughter and if anybody thinks they got an easy answer for that question they're nuts the answer the honest answer first
is I do not know why the babysitter didn't see the stop sign why she went
right through the stop sign in a TR pickup truck at 55 miles an hour came careening down the road smashing into
the car sending my seven-year-old niece into an early grave I don't know why God
allowed that to happen and so therefore we got to be patient with each other we got to love each other we got to be committed to
each other as we go through these painful difficult times the third point is what's Comfort Comfort is
presence so you being together as a family with your presence is crucial and
even more important is God God's presence with you the presence of Jesus Christ and that's where all of this talk
and all of these answers to all these difficult questions gets real practical it's not an issue of a good
answer to a difficult question now it's an issue of presence I need you to be with me because I'm hurting my loved one
died and it stinks and now all of a sudden Faith becomes real personal because now it's
an issue of do I know the presence of God and brother I'm 70 years old so you're a lot younger than me and I'm
still working on that I want to know the presence of God because it's hard and I
was really ticked when Time Magazine came out with Mother Teresa on the cover saying oh the woman struggle with doubt see she didn't really have real Faith
all baloney give me a break there is such a thing as depression there is such a thing as loneliness as the snut gets
kicked out of You by life so now we got to know Christ and I find great comfort
that infl Philippians 3:10 Paul writes I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of
sharing in his suffering remember you worship a suffering God who got the snot
kicked out of him and he was nailed to wen cross so you can connect with this God this God can connect with you he's a
suffering God and then ultimately brother we have the solution to suffering we're going to go through good
times we're going to go through hard times in this life and you're going through them now both of them and yet we have the ultimate solution for suffering
and death and that solution is eternal life in a heaven where there will be no
more still birth no more cancer no more heart failure no more little kids getting knocked into early Graves by
ridiculous car accidents but eternal life in the presence of God so come on
my atheist agnostic friend let's go into the hospital come on my atheist agnostic friend let's go into the room where the baby lies whose body's being shredded by
termina cancer what are you going to do you're going to wave your fist in God's face and blame God that's a copout
that's misplaced blame I as a follow of Christ walk to the other side of that bed and I too
will held that child's hand and seek to comfort that child but in Jesus Christ
I've got a suffering God who gives a rip about death about grieving people who
wants to comfort us and wrap his arms around us that my friend is the solution
to the very real problem of suffering and death Jesus
Christ we'll take one or two more thank you uh my name is Darlene saw
for beautiful explanation earlier about the foundation of our country uh under the Trump Administration the 1776
commission was really focused on instilling patriotism for students
um and I wanted to know your thoughts on a new agenda I think it's called project 2025 where many conservative
organizations were focusing on the solution of uh helping Americans
understand uh the true goal of how our country is supposed to serve us what are
your thoughts on that agenda or that project yeah I I we're one of the listed organizations on Project 2025 I don't
know all the details the the Democrats are losing their minds over this thing I mean it's unbelievable uh it's it's
actually like her core message right now um it's not officially part of the campaign that's important to note it's a
900 page document I haven't read it I don't think anyone's going to read it um but yes if the essence is to bring back
patriotic education I was on the 1776 commission and the First Act Biden gets
sworn into office he walks 100 feet into a side room in the halls of Congress
does he even wait to get to the White House and signs an executive order nullifying the 1776 commission it was
within seconds of getting sworn in which was a commission all about American
patriotism our American founding it was literally the first thing he did as president was to make sure that our kids
uh wouldn't learn to love America all right one more question yes let's go to the back Daisy let's give uh
some love back there and we have by the way we have interviews all day guys so we have a lot of fun together
so thank you Charlie so good to meet these other s that are here um I had
dinner with George Bara not too long ago and I said some of the biggest concerns I pedor just outside of Detroit and uh I
realized that it's hard to keep college kids engaged it's a hard demographic to
reach and it seems like my pastor friends are all asking the same question so I asked George Bara I said what is
the solution he said you think you're losing them in the college year years but you're losing them much
earlier the world view is developed by time they're 11 so knowing god designed
three institutions but he gave the responsibility to parents to rear their
children how do these three institutions come alongside parents in God's design
to help them establish a Biblical worldview in their children before
they're 11 yes 75% of Christian high schoolers turn
away from the faith when they go to college fortunately 40% come back after
college but that 75% is astronomical in my mind and the reason why we go after
college students is because they weren't prepared like you put beautifully they
weren't prepared by their parents in high school and that's not just because they weren't given the intellectual
tools to defend their faith that is one of the biggest but it's also often because their parents didn't just they
didn't Mentor them especially the father of the household they didn't Mentor their child and they didn't show their
child what objective right and wrong is the reason why 80% of Pastor kids turn
away from the faith and never come back to the faith is because their fathers who are the pastors usually spend more
time with the congregants then they do their kids and they also don't practice what they preach I'm fortunately one of
the 20% who has retained my faith because my dad has done a fantastic job practicing what he preaches and spending
a ton of time with us he actually was invited by endless amounts of organizations to speak all over the
country and internationally but he chose because of his love for me and my brothers to actually become a pastor and
to spend time with us and not just leave us and travel all over the country and and internationally so I think it starts
with the father absolutely the mother and it starts with that mentoring process loving them and giving them a
firm foundation of what is true right and wrong like the founders of our country clearly did with liberalism now
you clearly see that there's no objective right and wrong so what do they do they come out screaming and they don't even know what they're screaming
about they don't know what's right or wrong they're just screaming and oh yeah drug use is is healthy for you and they
just go on and on down the line and it just becomes a total excuse my language poop show and so that that that's one
way I I I I won't speak to the government side and some of these other institutions because this is our kind of
Lane but but really loving mentoring and then giving the intellectual tools to defend their faith which is not that
hard because in the philosophical realm about 50% now and it's growing of
philosophers at the top schools are saying there is a God 20 years ago is
10% now we have to go up to the religious departments because you would think the religious departments are pretty high in their belief of God and
teaching it no they're not they're the opposite even in the Bible Belt schools like we were just at Mississippi State
some of the nicest professors I talked to and yet they were secular liberals in the Bible Belt and they were in the
religious departments saying oh no maybe there's a higher power but but let's be agnostic so pushing back against them is
important uh I would just say this that um we we need and it's very fixable we
need a Renaissance of homeschooling and not just sending your kids to private school but homeschooling itself um the
excuses people give to not homeschool uh is the following is that I don't know how to do it that's a really bad answer
uh that's like that's unbelievably bad you taught your kid how to talk and you taught your kid the fundamental stuff uh
there's so many organizations that can supplement or and this is understandable is that it's too expensive because I have to go back in the workforce so and
here's the contradiction if you're willing for for you or your kid to go into debt to send them to college why
would you not be willing to go into debt to homeschool your kid and no one has a good answer to that
because they're willing to send their kid to go study study North African lesbian poetry at Arizona State
University but they're not willing to make Financial sacrifices so that they could educate their kid the third thing
is that um and I know this doesn't fall into anyone at this conference but gen the general population parents are lazy
today they just are they just aren't doing their job they're just they want someone else to do it for them uh it's
the I'm more important than my kid a parent is like a part-time job I want my own
career and uh we're seeing the ramification that can I just add how would you respond to because I I'm
pretty strong believer in this 1929 what happens when the obvious biblical homeschool movement occurred
and we left the halls of power at the big universities because we were terrified all of a sudden Christian parents especially more the
fundamentalists of Daris yes evolutionism I mean how do you balance because I was homeschooled through the
sixth grade but how do you take this balance of let's congregate together grow our faith but then make sure we
don't do what we did in 19 29 and get terrified of the culture and lose power in the halls of power yeah I I'm a big
believer that up to a certain age the child should be protected and nurtured and I don't know what that age is sixth
grade might be the right time but I I wouldn't put an eight-year-old in a government school and so in the current
in the current configuration I I think that it's okay for us to domicile our children away
from the current um uh culture and then but prepare them
that they're going to be going to war and then you send them out and so I think both can be equally true and once
they get sent out they must be really deep in their faith and understand what's coming to them because it's not a
matter of cloistering them for the rest of their life but protecting the innocence of a child is biblical it's
necessary and you know we have we've seen the ramifications of throwing these
kids to the Lions as you say by 11 their worldview is is formed sixth grade is 13
years old 12 13 years old right so it's that's probably you know good uh good CAU off there we're out of time
everybody give it up for The Connect pleas right got it all right thanks guys
