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Dennis Prager on His New Book If There Is No God and the Battle Over Good and Evil
Dennis Prager discusses his thirteenth book, If There Is No God, exploring the fundamental connection between belief in God and objective morality. Written while recovering in the hospital, Prager addresses the toughest questions about faith, values, and ethics that have been posed to him over fifty years. From confronting the problem of evil to explaining why the Sabbath matters and understanding modern anti-Semitism, Prager argues that without God, good and evil become mere opinions rather than absolute truths. He shares stories of bringing people to faith across the world, explains why secular values ultimately stem from Judeo-Christian roots, and offers guidance for raising children with authentic religious principles in an increasingly secular age.
Completing a Book While Healing
Dennis Prager completed his thirteenth book, If There Is No God: The Battle Over Who Defines Good and Evil, while recovering in the hospital. The accomplishment represents not just a personal triumph but a continuation of Prager's lifelong mission to bring clarity to fundamental questions about morality, faith, and the existence of God.
The book arrives at a moment when spiritual revival is sweeping across America and the world. Erika Kirk, wife of Charlie Kirk, wrote in her dedication that reading the book feels like sitting at a dinner table listening to conversations between Dennis Prager and Charlie Kirk, grappling with the tough moral questions that define our time.
Bringing People to God Across the World
Prager shares a powerful anecdote from a speaking engagement in the Czech Republic. A young man approached him after the event and said, "Dennis, I want you to know that Ben Shapiro brought me to conservatism and you brought me to God." The room erupted in applause, and Prager was deeply moved by the encounter.
This story illustrates one of the benefits of the internet age. Despite its many dangers, the internet allows voices to reach people on the other side of the world, touching lives in ways previously impossible. Prager has spent his career not primarily arguing for God's existence, but rather for God's necessity in establishing objective morality.
The Central Thesis: No God Means No Good and Evil
The core argument of If There Is No God is straightforward but profound: without God, there is no such thing as good and evil. All moral judgments become merely opinions based on personal or societal preferences. If you or your society likes something, it's called good. If you don't like it, it's called evil.
However, if good and evil truly exist as objective realities, then there must be a God. These terms are ultimately religious in nature, requiring a transcendent source beyond human opinion. This is the fundamental battle the book addresses: who gets to define good and evil?
What Are Values?
Prager defines values simply but powerfully: a value is what is more important than your opinion or your feelings. In our current age of feelings, most people don't actually have values—they have feelings that they call values.
True values transcend feelings. They remain constant even when emotions suggest otherwise. This distinction becomes critical in understanding how to live a principled life in a culture that increasingly prioritizes subjective emotional states over objective moral standards.
Where Secular People Get Their Values
Even prominent atheists acknowledge the Judeo-Christian roots of Western values. Richard Dawkins, the renowned scientist and best-known atheist spokesman, now calls himself a "cultural Christian." He recognizes that he didn't derive his values from secularism but from Judeo-Christian sources.
Dawkins is honest enough to acknowledge that Western society was created by the Bible and those who lived by it and interpreted it. Good secular people ultimately got their values from these religious sources, whether they recognize it or not.
Voltaire, another major atheist during the French Enlightenment, famously said something to the effect of: "I'm an atheist, but I want everybody who works for me to be a believer." This statement reveals the practical recognition that religious belief produces certain virtues beneficial to society, even among those who don't personally hold that belief.
When You Disagree With Your Religion
Some people struggle with aspects of their religious tradition. Prager addresses this common concern by pointing out that there are people—both Jews and Christians—who don't differ with anything in their respective faiths. However, many do have disagreements.
The question becomes: what happens when you don't believe certain things your religion teaches? Prager's answer is illuminating. It's like asking what happens if you differ with certain things in American history. Do you stop being an American, or do you work to improve America?
You don't leave your religion or abandon religion altogether. The critical question is: what will you abandon it for? Seriously, what will you affirm ultimately? Prager cites one of his favorite quotes, often attributed to G.K. Chesterton though the origin cannot be verified: "When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing. They believe in anything."
Believing in Anything: The Absurdities of Secularism
As proof of this principle, Prager points to the belief that a boy can become a girl or a girl can become a boy. This represents believing in anything. The absurdity extends to the notion that it's moral and fair for a biological male to compete in women's sports because they're "really women."
Another widespread absurdity believed by hundreds of millions: poverty causes crime. This is as absurd as claiming men can become women. If poverty caused crime, the world would be engulfed in criminal behavior because there are so many poor people.
Prager recalls hearing "poverty causes crime" when he was in elementary school. He immediately thought of his grandparents on his father's side, who were very poor. His father completely supported them. He thought, "My grandfather doesn't rape, doesn't murder, doesn't mug. The thought that he would do that was inconceivable." But he was quite poor. That's when Prager knew the poverty-causes-crime narrative was a lie.
The amount of nonsense that secularism has produced is one of the major themes of the book.
Should Children Choose Their Own Religion?
Prager takes a controversial stance on this question, one that not many people agree with him on, including many of his supporters. However, his supporters know he'll say what he truly believes.
He regularly gets calls on his radio show asking, "Dennis, how do I find true religion?" Prager has never used that term. To him, true religion is the religion that produces good, God-fearing people. He doesn't go further than that in assessing true religion.
If there's such a thing as "the true religion," then there's no issue of faith. The very fact that people say "I believe" rather than "I know" is significant. One of the most remarkable lines in Deuteronomy—the most quoted book by America's founders—states that God has given the stars in the sky to various nations for them to worship. In other words, God doesn't believe those objects are truly divine, but the Hebrew Bible does not judge people on the basis of their faith. It judges them on the basis of their behavior.
When Prager thinks of all the religious people who did evil, he asks: did they have a "true religion"? The answer is obviously no.
Regarding children specifically, the notion of "let them choose their religion" is problematic. What does that mean? You'll give them one week of weak Hinduism, another week of weak Buddhism, another week of weak Christianity, another week of weak Judaism? Obviously, people are free to choose their religion when they're adults, but you have to give your child something authentic to use as a foundation.
Prager doesn't buy the "let them choose" notion. It's an excuse not to give your child something beautiful and authentic.
The Problem of Evil and Suffering
The obvious question many ask: if God is good, how can there be so much evil in this world? And how is it that evil people flourish while good people suffer?
Prager has wondered about this since high school and has read book after book, article after article on the issue. His conclusion may be disappointing to some: we don't know the complete answer.
However, he offers some insight. Let's say God punished everybody who hurt another person. If that happened, who would hurt anybody else? It would deprive human beings of moral free will. Moreover, at what level of hurt would God intervene? What if you insult somebody? Would God punish you? Clearly rape and murder would qualify, but what about a holdup? What about an insult?
For there to be free will, God can't punish everybody who does evil and reward every good act. It would render life meaningless.
Another factor: Prager has said on air for years that belief in an afterlife keeps him sane. Knowing how much unjust suffering people have endured, the belief that there is ultimate justice in an afterlife has given him peace and continues to do so. If there is no afterlife, then there is no answer to that question, and we're in serious trouble.
Would God Want All People to Have the Same Religion?
Answering from within his own Jewish faith, Prager points to the prophetic vision: "My house of prayer will be a house of prayer for all nations." But this doesn't necessarily mean everyone will have the same route to God, so long as they end up with God.
Maybe not everybody has to be the same religion. There are different avenues to God. Prager doesn't work for everyone to have identical religious practice. He works for everybody to be what he calls "ethical monotheists"—one God, one ethical value system.
Why the Sabbath Matters
The Sabbath is the only ritual law in the Ten Commandments. It's up there with "do not murder" and "do not steal." That's how important God thought it was.
Why is it so important? For many reasons. The Sabbath affirms that God created the world—not chance, not Zeus, not Baal, but God. The seventh day is the celebration of creation. As stated in the Hebrew Bible, it is a sign between God and the children of Israel that in six days God created the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested.
Prager shares a story from his junior year at the University of Leeds in England. One Saturday afternoon, he was lying in bed reading a book when his roommate showed up. The roommate lived with his girlfriend but would return periodically to do laundry. Seeing Prager fully clothed on top of his bed reading, the roommate asked, "Oh, Dennis, are you well?"
"Yeah, I'm fine," Prager replied.
"Why are you lying in bed?"
"Well, it's my Sabbath and I'm resting."
"Sabbath? You believe in God?"
"Yes."
"What's God?"
Prager remembers thinking this guy was studying physics, so he wanted to sound somewhat scientifically literate. He answered: "God is the only absolute in a universe of relativity."
His roommate's response: "Oh."
Prager was thrilled with his answer. He thought, "Yeah, that's the purpose of the Sabbath—to remind people that God created the heavens and the earth and that they didn't create themselves."
Everyone Worships Something
Charlie Kirk wrote in his book about the Sabbath: "What do you worship?" The chapter notes that everyone worships something. Whether you know it or acknowledge it, you are worshiping something every day.
Prager notes that Charlie would call him regularly with questions. There probably isn't anyone in the world who listened to more of Prager's teachings on tape than Charlie Kirk. Charlie listened to 250 of Prager's Bible studies, among other materials.
Prager's original quote applies here: when people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing—they believe in anything.
He offers an example from a column he wrote called "Higher Than the Angels." The title is a pun, referencing both spiritual matters and the Los Angeles Angels baseball team, which Prager has supported for fifty years. When the Angels finally made it to the playoffs against the New York Yankees, Hugh Hewitt called with an incredible offer: front-row seats behind the catcher for the playoff game.
"Oh my God," Prager thought. "When is it?"
"Saturday."
Prager assumed Saturday night, but Hewitt clarified: "Saturday day."
Prager didn't think attending a baseball game was keeping with the Sabbath. He had to say no. He wrote the column "Higher Than the Angels"—the Sabbath was higher than the Angels.
When considering what people worship, the list is revealing: themselves (there's a great line: "He's a self-made man and he worships his creator"), money, fame. What people will do for fame is mind-blowing. Prager asks kids in elementary schools what they want to be when they grow up. A very common answer is "famous."
"Famous for what?" he asks.
"It doesn't matter."
The Fight Against the Ten Commandments in Schools
The battle to remove the Ten Commandments from schools started in the 1960s, but parents are witnessing it intensely today. PragerU produced a book about the Ten Commandments, and getting Ten Commandments posters back into classrooms remains a fight.
Why would anybody be against teaching "do not murder" or honoring the Sabbath?
The answer: displaying the Ten Commandments affirms that the ethical roots of our civilization are biblical. This drives secularists crazy. They want to believe we evolved women's rights, human rights, democracy, and all the other achievements of Western civilization without roots—that we just developed them. They don't want to acknowledge the biblical foundation.
Most Americans don't know that facing the Supreme Court justices as they look out is a sculpture of Moses holding the Ten Commandments. No Ten Commandments, no courts of justice.
Prager contends that the most devastating Supreme Court decision was not Roe v. Wade. The most devastating was the 1962 decision removing a completely non-denominational prayer from schoolrooms. The prayer was basically: "We ask Thine blessings on our parents and our teachers." No Judaism, no Christianity, no Jesus, nothing denominational.
Prager has said all his public life that in one generation, American students went from blessing teachers to cursing teachers. The consequences have been utterly destructive.
The God-Sized Hole and What Fills It
It's not just abstract ideologies filling the God-sized holes in kids' hearts. It's concrete alternatives, including Islamism. Is it a huge surprise that when students were giving out hijabs in Texas, young women were grabbing them? They were looking for something. They were looking for meaning.
If you take out the Ten Commandments from schools and don't allow Christian prayer, these kids will look for something else. Right around the corner, they'll find Islamism, hijabs, and other ways to feel like they belong to something, to feel like they have meaning in their lives.
Data shows the number of churches closing in the United States and the number of mosques being built in the UK and US compared to churches. The most popular name in the UK is Muhammad. Muhammad is in the top ten names in New York City as well.
You can blame external forces, but you must also look at what America did and what schools have done. If you're not going to allow Judeo-Christian values to be taught in schools, then kids will search for something else. Part of it is on us.
The group with the most fervent beliefs today tends to be Muslims. Kids are drawn to people who fervently believe in something. According to many, you can't even say "Judeo-Christian" anymore, as if Christianity came from nothing. Jesus would say Judeo-Christian. He would probably just say Judeo because he didn't know about Christianity yet.
Advice for Atheist Parents
What should an atheist parent do when it comes to religion? Should they teach their child about God even if they don't believe?
Prager says they should adopt Voltaire's belief. They may not believe in God, but they should understand it's a good thing if civilization continues to believe in God and maintains a Judeo-Christian orientation.
He offers an analogy: parents who have zero interest in classical music still give their kids music lessons. They know it's good for them even though they couldn't spell Beethoven, let alone identify anything he wrote. The same principle applies to religion.
Why Jews Still Choose to Be Jewish
It's surprising that people still want to be Jewish knowing the dangers of anti-Semitism and what it's like to be a Jew, especially during times when it has become dangerous again even in America.
Prager shares a story from about thirty years ago. After a speech in Phoenix to the Jewish community, he was flying home to Los Angeles. A woman who attended the speech happened to sit next to him. She's not Jewish but came because she was familiar with his work and radio show.
She told him her husband, who is Jewish and the child of Holocaust survivors, would not attend. He is doing everything possible to assimilate, to shed his Jewish identity and not give their children a Jewish identity because it's too dangerous.
Prager notes this isn't an illogical or hateful idea. It makes perfect sense. But it shows that ironically, there's a deep wellspring of faith among many Jews. Despite the danger, they still raise their kids to be Jews despite the near certainty that something bad might happen.
As stated in the Passover Haggadah, written nearly 2,000 years ago: "In every generation, somebody arises to annihilate us." Not oppress us, not enslave us—annihilate us. This realization is age-old.
The belief that Jews, this tiny group of human beings, are going to run the world and must be stopped merely reinforces in Prager the validity of Judaism.
Jews Become More Jewish When Attacked
Many Jews are realizing that anti-Semitism, while perhaps less visible in the United States over the past twenty to forty years, is on the rise again. Some Jews may feel like assimilating entirely, even losing their Jewish religion, as a solution.
However, most Jews have the opposite reaction. The more Jews are attacked, the more Jewish they become. Many people who did not go to synagogue, who were not engaged in Jewish life, who had no curiosity about what it means to be a Jew until October 7th happened, until the attacks came from multiple sides—these people are now becoming more Jewish.
It's surprising that Jews wouldn't just say, "I give up. I don't want to be Jewish anymore. Let me just live in peace." But the opposite happens. The more they get attacked, the more Jewish they become.
As Prager said, there is a wellspring of faith that Jews are not always consciously identified with, but this phenomenon proves it.
The Chosen People and Why That Matters
Jews are attacked for believing they're the chosen people, which has never for a moment meant superior to anybody else. It just meant chosen—that God chose a certain group to reveal Himself to. It was the Jews who received the Ten Commandments, not the Babylonians, not the Assyrians, not the Greeks.
The Jews have a mission to spread God and His ethics to the world.
Prager points out that everybody thinks it's rational in some way to hate Jews because they believe they're chosen. But almost every group thinks something similar about themselves. The Chinese think they're the center of the universe—that's what "China" means: middle kingdom, the kingdom in the middle of the world. The Japanese believe they're the land of the rising sun, getting the sun first in the world. That's why there's a sun on the Japanese flag.
But nobody hates the Chinese or Japanese for those beliefs, though they're far more numerous than the Jews. People should just ignore it, but they don't. Why? Because they believe it. Those who hate the Jews believe that the Jews are chosen.
The Test Humanity Keeps Failing
The oldest trick in creating a populist movement is to create an inside group and an outside group. The easiest group to put on the outside is the small group whose name everybody knows.
Rome went after the Jews. The USSR went after the Jews. Nazi Germany went after the Jews. More recently, 47 years ago, the Iranians went after the Jews. Every single one has failed the test.
It's as if God or the universe keeps choosing the same group to put humanity to a test, and humans keep failing. In the effort to create an insider group and an outsider group, using the Jews as the outsider group to gain power and control, humanity repeatedly fails.
Looking at everything through the lens of an educator, it seems like God is constantly testing humanity, and humans are constantly failing miserably.
The Final Message: Living a Values-Driven Life
The world needs healing. We're facing tests that may be given by God, or perhaps they're just the same mistakes humans constantly make.
Prager's final message for those interested in learning more about how to live a values-driven life: read the book If There Is No God.
It's his thirteenth book and unique in that it consists entirely of challenges posed to him over fifty years—the toughest questions. He even added questions that were never asked to make it tougher, so that any challenge a reader might have is actually covered.
This is the issue: the God issue. If you care about good and evil, then the God issue is the issue.
Prager asks those whose lives he may have touched in some way to pre-order a copy on Amazon or at PragerU before February 24th, the official publication date, so people will take notice of the importance of the book.
For those reading the book who have additional hard questions, Prager welcomes them. He loves tough questions. Readers can respond or send emails with their challenges.
Together with PragerU's kids' book about the Ten Commandments, the goal is to get these teachings back into classrooms to help save the country. Reading both Prager's book and Charlie Kirk's book together creates a meaningful trio for those looking for something significant to bring into their homes. We could use a lot of meaning and a lot of values.
Video Transcript
Dennis, I am so excited. I'm finally
holding your new book and I still can't
believe that you finished this book
while in the hospital. And so I just
want to thank you. Uh I'm sure many
people are so excited and just
astonished by this amazing success of
yours of being able to complete yet
another book during this, you know,
pretty challenging year.
>> This is a really important book.
Uh, it's called If There Is No God, the
battle over who defines
good and evil.
You know, Marissa,
I have brought a lot of people to God.
Uh, it's not a boast. It's either true
or not true.
In fact, let me tell you a little
anecdote.
I spoke in the Czech Republic a few
years ago to a group of young people
And one of them came over to me and the
rest of the group could hear him and he
said, "Dennis, I want you to know
that Ben Shapiro brought me to
conservatism
and you brought me to God."
and everybody applauded and I was very
touched by that
>> that I brought a young man in the Czech
Republic to God.
You know, we correctly see the dangers
of the internet, but that's one of its
benefits that you could touch a person
on the other side of the world.
So anyway,
I have
rarely spoken about God's existence.
I have spoken about God's necessity.
And that's what this book is about. If
there is no God, there is no such thing
as good and evil. All they are are
opinions.
You or your society like it. It's called
good. You or your society don't like it
and it's called evil.
If they really exist, that means there
is a god. It is ultimately a religious
term and that the book is about that
subject. H. Well, I think I it's no
coincidence that I'm holding your book,
I'm holding Charlie's book, and I'm
holding the Prageru kids book on the Ten
Commandments. And I think it's no
coincidence that all three of them uh
are coming out around the same time,
around a time that there is a spiritual
revival, not just in America, but around
the world. Uh Erica Kirk wrote a
beautiful dedication to your book and in
a nutshell she describes that reading
this book feels like she is sitting with
Charlie Kirk and with you and listening
to the conversations that you would have
had uh around a dinner table which is so
true because this book is very authentic
and it's very real and it's very easy to
read and these are those tough questions
that many of us Charlie myself would
come to you and ask how to grapple with,
right? How do how do we choose the moral
route? How do we think through our
values? And so the book is structured
through questions that all of us were
always unafraid to ask you and you have
so carefully and in in such a wise way
answered for us. And so these are some
really really hard questions that you
answered. I'd love to start with one of
them and that is you talk about values
throughout the book. And so what what is
a value? It is what is more important
than your opinion or your feelings. In a
nutshell, that's what it is. We live in
the age of feelings.
So, it it's it's not even accurate to
say most people have values. Most people
have feelings and they call them values.
Values are more important than feelings.
So you answer this question in the book
and I think it's a very common question.
If you're not a religious person, where
do you get your values from? And if you
claim that you are a religious person,
what does it actually mean to be a
religious person? These are obviously
two different questions, but I would
imagine people who are listening to this
are wondering, well, what if you're not
religious?
>> So a great example, Richard Dawkins is a
lifelong atheist.
great scientist
and
the best known atheist spokesman,
Richard Dawkins,
and he has now come to call himself a
cultural Christian,
meaning that he understands he didn't
get his values from secularism.
He he got his values
from what I call Judeo-Christian
sources
and he's honest enough to acknowledge
that
Western society
was created by the Bible
and those who lived by it and
interpreted it.
So that's where
good secular people ultimately got their
values. You know, Voltater, another
major atheist
during the Enlightenment, the French
thinker,
and he he said something to the effect,
"I'm an atheist, but I want everybody
who works for me to be a believer."
>> Yeah. is a great line.
>> So Dennis, one of the one of the hard
things about religion is that some of us
who want to be religious don't agree
with everything within our own religion.
As you answer this question in the book,
what happens if you don't believe
believe in certain things that your
religion teaches?
>> There are people Jews and Christians.
Jews who don't differ with anything in
Judaism and Christians who don't differ
with anything in Christianity.
Uh I I have certainly
uh disagreed with various things uh in
Judaism,
but it it's like saying, well, what if
you differ with certain things uh in
American history?
Do you stop being an American or do you
just improve
America?
You you you don't leave your religion.
You don't abandon religion for what will
you abandon it?
Seriously, what will you abandon it?
What will what will you affirm
ultimately?
Uh my favorite quote of many favorite
quotes and nobody really knows the
origin. They say GK Chesterton but it's
uh we don't know. It can't be verified.
When people stop believing in God, they
don't believe in nothing. They believe
in anything.
And you want one proof
that uh people believe that a boy can
become a girl or a girl can become a
boy. That's believing in anything. So
when you think of the absurdities
that it's [snorts] moral and fair for a
biological male to compete in women's
sports
because they're really women. I mean
the absurdities or poverty causes crime
uh which is believed by hundreds of
millions of people which is as absurd as
men can become women. If poverty caused
crime the world would be engulfed in
crime because there are so many poor
people.
You know what I'll never forget? I heard
poverty causes crime when I was in
elementary school and I thought of my
grandparents on my father's side who
were very very poor. My father
completely supported them. I thought,
gee, my grandfather,
he doesn't rape, he doesn't murder, he
doesn't mug.
The thought that he would do that w was
was a joke. It was inconceivable.
But he was quite poor. That's when I
knew that was a lie. That that's why
people do such things.
So the amount of nonsense
that secularism has bred
uh is is one of the themes of the book.
You talk all the time about the
importance of having religion in raising
children and I'm wondering do you think
that a child should choose their own
religion?
>> Right. So, this is uh
not many people agree with me on this
one, including many of my many
supporters.
But part of the reason that they support
me is
they know that I'll say what I what I
truly believe.
I get call I've gotten calls on my radio
show Dennis
how do I find true religion
and I I have
I have never used that term
to me true religion
is the religion that produces
good god-fearing people
and therefore for
I I I I don't go further than that in
assessing true religion
cuz if there's such a thing as true
religion or the true religion then
there's no issue of faith.
The very fact that people say I believe
in
they don't say I know they say I
believe.
And one of the most amazing lines in
Deuteronomy,
the most quoted book by the founders,
incidentally,
and I wrote it in my commentary,
the rational Bible on Deuteronomy.
There is a a a a sentence there that God
has
uh let's see I'm trying to translate
from the Hebrew. God has given
the stars and the uh in the sky to
various nations
for them to worship.
In other words,
God doesn't believe that they're true.
But
the the Hebrew Bible does not judge
people on the basis of their faith. It
judges them on the basis of their
behavior.
When I think of all the religious
people,
who did evil,
did they have a true religion?
I mean, was that true religion?
No. It's absurd.
So that's with regard to adults
and with regard to children
the notion let them choose their
religion. So what are you going to give
them? One weak Hinduism, another weak
Buddhism, another weak Christianity,
another week Judaism. What does that
mean? They'll choose their religion.
Obviously, people are free to choose
their religion when they're an adult,
but you have to give your child
something authentic
to to
use as a a springing board. So, I I I
don't uh I don't buy that notion. It's
an excuse
to not give your child something
beautiful and authentic.
The obvious question that many of us are
asking is if God is good, how can there
be so much evil in this world? And how
is it that evil people flourish while
good people suffer?
I have wondered about that since high
school
and I have read book after book, article
after article discussing the issue
and here is the
I don't know if disappointing is the
word
uh but it might be for some people
watching this. We don't know the answer.
I have somewhat of an answer
uh but the complete answer
let me let me put it to you this way.
Okay,
let us say that God punished everybody
who hurt another person.
If that happened, who would hurt anybody
else?
It it would deprive human beings of
moral free will. And by the way, at what
level of hurt? What if [clears throat]
you insult somebody? Will God punish
you?
Clearly, rape and murder would qualify.
But but what about
a holdup?
And as I said, what about an insult?
So for there to be free will,
God can't punish everybody who does evil
and reward every good act.
It would it would render life a little
silly.
So that that's one factor.
The other is
I have said on the air for years
that belief in an afterlife
keeps me sane.
Knowing how much suffering, excuse me,
unjust suffering
people have endured,
the the belief that there is ultimate
justice in an afterlife
that has given me some peace and it
continues to do so.
If there is no afterlife,
then there is no answer to that question
and we're really uh
uh how shall I put it? Screwed.
[sighs and gasps]
>> That's some way to put it,
>> right?
>> Do you think God would want all people
to have the same religion?
>> Would that be beneficial?
>> That's So here I'll have to answer from
within my own faith. Judaism.
The dream is
that let's see
that my my house of prayer will be a
house of prayer for all nations,
but not necessarily
that everyone will have the same route
to God. So long as they it it ends up
with God.
Uh maybe not everybody has to be the
same religion.
There there
are different avenues
to to God.
So no I I it's not something that I I
work for. I I work for everybody to be
what I call ethical monotheists.
One God, one ethical value system.
Why do you think
the Sabbath is so important? You your
conversation with Charlie Kirk was
around the Sabbath. You write an entire
chapter in your book about the Sabbath.
Uh you know really all your work on the
Ten Commandments constantly emphasizes
the importance of the Sabbath. This is
not something that most people keep
around the world. Why do you think it's
so important? Well, among other things,
it's the only ritual law in the Ten
Commandments.
That's pretty important. It's up there
with do not murder and uh do not steal
and so on. That's how important God
thought it was.
In any event,
why?
for many reasons which I laid out in my
commentary, The Rational Bible, and
which Charlie beautifully writes in his
new book,
unfortunately
published postumously.
And
what is being said with the Sabbath?
You're affirming that God created the
world. Not chance,
not Zeus,
not Bal,
God.
The seventh day
is
the
celebration of creation. And that by the
way is is again it's in the Hebrew
Bible. It is a sign between me and
children of Israel that in seven six
days I created the heavens and the earth
and on the seventh day I rested.
I got a great story on that. Marissa,
when I was a junior in college, I spent
my year in England
at the University of Leeds.
And one Saturday afternoon,
I I you know, I took it easy
and I was lying in bed reading a book
and my roommate
showed up
to my great joy. nothing against him,
but it meant I had my own apartment, my
own flat as they call it, uh because he
lived with his girlfriend, but he would
come back periodically to do laundry. He
sees me lying again fully clothed on the
top of my bed reading a book and he
goes, "Oh, [clears throat] Dennis, are
you well?"
And I go, "Yeah, I'm fine." goes, "Why
why are you uh lying in bed?" I go,
"Well, it's it's my Sabbath and I'm
resting."
And he goes, "Sabbath?
You believe in God?"
And I go, "Yes." And he goes, "What's
God?"
And I remember thinking, "This guy is
studying physics, so I'm going to sound
semi literate scientifically and give
him an answer." And I go, "God is the
only absolute in a universe of
relativity."
And I'll never forget his reaction. He
goes, "Oh."
>> So did the following weekend he did he
spend the Sabbath with you?
Yeah. No, not quite. There's no happy
ending except I I was thrilled with my
response. And I remember thinking,
"Yeah, that's the purpose of the Sabbath
to remind people that God created the
the heavens and the earth and that they
didn't create themselves."
You know, I uh you're bringing me back
to a chapter in in Charlie's book, and
one of the titles in in his book about
the Sabbath is, "What do you worship?"
And I'll just read a portion of of the
of the uh chapter here. Everyone
worships something. Whether you know it
or acknowledge it, you are worshiping
something every day. I'm curious, is
that something that you talk to Charlie
about? What is it that people worship
and how is it that the Sabbath helps you
distinguish between worshiping God or
worshiping all the other isms that are
out there?
Well, I've never said this publicly
because I you'll understand why,
but I could say now and and Charlie
notes it in dedication of his book to me
that
Charlie would call me regularly
with questions.
There there I don't think there is
anyone
in the world who listened to more of my
teachings on tape
than Charlie.
I know he listened to 250
of my Bible study uh Bible studies for
example.
It's very possible
that this was something I I might have
said to him, but I will say to you,
it's absolutely correct.
It's back to my original quote.
The people don't believe in nothing.
They believe in anything.
So, here's an interesting example and
anyone can find it on the internet. I've
written a thousand columns and they're
all on the internet. 20 years of 50
columns.
One of them is called Higher Than the
Angels
and is a great title
and is a is sort of a pun.
I I've been an Angels fan since I came
to LA 50 years ago.
Uh no no great reason. I I just have
been they were the underdog to the far
richer Dodgers.
Anyway,
they finally made it to the playoffs
and they were going to be playing the
New York Yankees,
the Nemesis.
And I get a call [snorts] uh from a dear
friend
says, "Dennis, I I have front row behind
the catcher seats for the Yankee uh
Angels game,
>> playoff game. I can't make it. Would you
like two seats?" And I go, "Oh my god."
This this was Hugh Hewitt, my colleague
and friend.
So I go, "Wow, when is it?" He goes,
"Saturday."
And I'm thinking, "Oh, Saturday night."
And he says, "Oh, no. Saturday day."
Well,
I I don't think that going to a baseball
game is in keeping with the Sabbath.
And I had to say no.
And I wrote this column, higher than the
angels.
That the Sabbath was higher than the
angels.
When I think of what people worship
themselves is a great line, he's a
self-made man and he worships his
creator
is a is a great line that I heard. uh
people, you know, they they worship
obviously money, they worship fame.
What people will do for fame
is mindblowing.
I'm I'd like to write a book one day on
fame.
I ask kids a lot if I speak in
elementary schools, what do you want to
be when you grow up? And very common
answer is famous.
So I'll go famous for what? And they go
it doesn't matter.
>> Yeah.
>> Dennis, why do you think there is such a
fight against putting the Ten
Commandments in the schools? This
obviously started in the 60s, but
parents like me are witnessing it right
now. You know, we just produced a a book
for Prageru about the Ten Commandments.
And I'll be honest with you, it's it's a
fight. It's a fight to get the Ten
Commandments posters back into the
classrooms. It's it's it's surprising
because I don't understand why would
anybody be against us teaching do not
murder or honor God, you know, honor the
Sabbath, keep the Sabbath. Why do you
think Do you think there's something
bigger than this?
Oh, clearly look, it it it affirms
that the roots, the ethical roots of our
civilization
are biblical. And this drives them
crazy.
They want to think that we evolved
women's rights and
human rights
and democracy and all the other things
of Western civilization
without roots. We just developed them.
They don't they don't want to
acknowledge this.
Do you know most Americans don't know
this
facing the Supreme Court justices
as they look out is a sculpture of the
Ten Comm Moses holding the Ten
Commandments. No Ten Commandments, no
courts of justice.
>> I guess this is what we're seeing since
they took the Ten Commandments out of
institutions in America. people are
forgetting our values.
>> I I contend that the most devastating
decision
was not Roie Wade.
The most devastating was 1962
about removing
a completely
non denominational prayer from school
rooms.
It was basically
we we ask
thine blessings on our parents and our
teachers.
Uh that was basically it.
No Judaism, no Christianity,
no Jesus, no.
And I I have said
all of my public life
that in one generation,
American students went from blessing
teachers to cursing teachers.
The consequences
have been utterly destructive.
So, it's not just other isms that are
filling up these god-sized holes in
kids' hearts. It's it's other isms like
Islamism included. It is a is it a huge
surprise that when students were giving
out hijabs in in Texas, young women were
grabbing them. They were looking for
something. They were looking for a
meaning in their heart. And if you take
out the Ten Commandments from the
schools and you don't allow Christian
prayer in the schools, the these kids
are looking for something else. And
right outside, right around the corner,
they'll find Islamisms and and hijabs
and and and other ways for for kids to
feel like they belong to something so
that they feel like they have meaning in
their life.
I saw data on the number of churches
closing in the United States
and the number of mosques being built in
the UK and the US as opposed to
churches.
It's uh you know the most popular name
in the UK is Muhammad.
Muhammad is in the top 10 in New York
City as well.
>> Is that right?
>> That's right. You can look it up.
>> Yeah. You know, and you can blame you
can blame people from the outside, but
you can also look at what America did
and and what the schools have done,
right? Again, they if if you're not
going to allow Christianity,
Judeo-Christian values to be taught in
the schools, then kids are going to go
and search for something else. Part of
it is on us.
Oh, totally.
Absolutely. The the group with the most
or a group with the most fervent
beliefs
tend to be Muslims today. Kids are drawn
to people who fervently believe in
something.
>> Mhm.
>> And you you can't even say according to
many, you can't even say Judeo-Christian
anymore.
as as if Christianity
came from nothing.
You know, Jesus would say
Judeo-Christian.
He would probably just say Judeo
cuz he he didn't know about Christianity
yet.
>> What's your advice to the atheist parent
when it comes to religion? Should the
atheist parent teach their child about
God even if they don't believe? Well, I
they should adopt Voltater's belief.
They may not believe in God, but they
understand it's a good thing if
civilization
continues
uh to believe in God and continues
to have a Judeo-Christian
orientation.
I I I often give the analogy
to parents who have zero interest in
classical music,
but they give their kids music lessons.
They know it's good for them even though
they
couldn't spell Beethoven, let alone
identify anything he wrote.
The same thing with religion.
>> I want to ask you a really hard
question. and you have it in your book
and I really contemplated where whether
I should bring it up or let the
listeners go and and read it in the
book. But I think many people who are
Jewish are are thinking about this
especially during these times where
surprisingly it's become dangerous yet
again to be a Jew uh even in America.
Do you think it's surprising that people
still want to be Jewish knowing the
dangers of anti-semitism and what it's
like to be a Jew?
I have told the following story for at
least 30 years
about 30 years ago after a speech in
Phoenix, Arizona to the Jewish
community.
I was flying home the next day to LA
and a woman who was at the speech
happened to be sitting next to me
and she told me the story. She came to
the speech. She's not Jewish, but she
came cuz she was familiar with my work
and my radio show.
and she said her husband who is Jewish
would not go.
He is the child of Holocaust survivors
and he is doing everything possible to
assimilate
to shed his Jewish identity and not give
their children a Jewish identity because
it's too dangerous.
And I've I've said in speeches, it's
it's not an illogical
or hateful
idea. It makes perfect sense.
But
it shows you
that ironically
there's a deep
wellspring of faith among many Jews that
despite that fact
they do raise their kids to be Jews
despite the near certitude
that something bad might happen.
As it says in the Passover Hagata, the
Passover
service written about
much of it written about nearly 2,000
years ago. In every generation,
somebody arises
to annihilate us. Not oppress us, not
enslave us, annihilate us.
That's uh quite something.
So this realization
is uh age-old.
I have to say
that the
the belief
in anti-semitism
that Jews are
this tiny tiny group of human beings,
you know, are going to run the world
and and we have to get rid of them as a
result.
It it merely reinforces in me the truth
or better the
the the validity
of of Judaism.
>> Dennis, I think that many Jews are
realizing that anti-semitism, while we
may have not seen so much of it here in
the United States in the past 20, maybe
40 years, is on the rise again. And some
Jews may feel like assimilating and
entirely and even, you know, losing
their Jewish religion is a solution.
Most Jews, I've noticed, the more the
Jews have been attacked, the more Jewish
they've become. There are many people
who actually did not go to synagogue and
did not get engaged in Jewish life and
not even find any sort of curiosity
about what it means to be a Jew until
October 7th happened, until the attacks
happened, until some folks on the right
have started attacking where they feel
like they're attacked from both sides.
It's surprising that Jews wouldn't just
say, you know what, I give up. I don't
want to be Jewish anymore. Let me just,
you know, live in peace. But the more
they get attacked, the more Jewish they
become.
>> Yeah, there is a, as I said, a
wellspring of faith that
Jews are not identified with, but this
is a proof of it. Jews are attacked
for believing they're the chosen people,
which has never ever
for a moment meant superior to anybody
else.
It just meant chosen.
That that God chose a certain group to
reveal himself to. It was the Jews who
got the Ten Commandments, not the
Babylonians,
not the Assyrians, not the Greeks, and
and so on.
And the Jews have a mission to spread
God and his ethics to the world.
So I pointed out
that everybody thinks it's rational
in some way to hate Jews because they
believe they're chosen. But I said
almost every group thinks that the
Chinese think they're the center of the
universe.
That's what China means. Means middle
kingdom. It's the It's the kingdom in
the middle of the world. The Japanese
believe that they're the land of the
rising sun. They get the sun first in
the world. That's why there's a sun on
the Japanese flag. and and so on. But
nobody hates the Chinese or the Japanese
for those beliefs, though they're way
more numerous
than than the Jews.
Pe people should just ignore it. But
they don't. And you know why? Because
they believe it.
That's why
>> they believe those who hate the Jews
believe that the Jews are chosen.
That's right.
>> Exactly.
>> You know, the oldest trick in the book
in creating a populist movement was to
create an inside group and an outside
group. And the if you're creating
populist movement, the easiest group to
put on the outside is the small group
whose name everybody knows. And so you
saw Rome going after the Jews. You saw
the USSR going after the Jews. Obviously
Nazi Germany went after the Jews. Even
more recently, 47 years ago, the
Iranians, right? They went after the
Jews and every single one of them has
failed the test. It's as if God or the
universe keeps choosing the same group
to put the humanity to a test and humans
keep failing at it in the effort of
creating an insider group and an
outsider group and using the Jews as the
outsider group to try to gain power and
control. I you know I look at everything
through the lens of an educator and so
to me it just seems like God is
constantly testing humanity and humans
are constantly failing at it miserably.
>> You got it.
I couldn't have said it better.
>> I I want to wrap it back into um the
important message in your book because
the world needs a lot of healing, right?
We're calling we're talking about tests
that are maybe given by God or maybe
it's just the same mistakes that humans
constantly make. What is your final
message for those who are interested in
learning more about how to live a
valuesdriven
life?
>> Read the book If There is no God. Uh
it's uh
it's unique in uh it's my 13th book and
it's unique in that it's all challenges
to me over 50 years. the toughest
questions. And not only that, I added
questions
that were never asked to even make it
tougher
so that the any challenge that a reader
might have uh is is actually covered.
Th this is this is the issue. The God
issue. If you care about good and evil,
then the God issue is the issue. And I
would ask those
whose lives I may have touched in some
way to please pre-order a copy
on Amazon or at Prageru
before February 24th
when uh it it's uh the official official
publication date because I I would like
people to take notice of the importance
of the book.
>> And I'll add for those who are reading
the book and want to send additional
hard questions for me to ask you,
Dennis, I'm sure you'll happily answer
them so people can respond below or send
us emails. I know you love you love
those tough questions and I don't have
to be the only ones asking these
questions. So, we got the book. We have
the kids book about the Ten
Commandments. We're going to get them
back into those classrooms so that we
can save our country. And I personally
really enjoyed reading both your book
and Charlie's book at the same time. So,
it's a really fun trio for those who are
looking for something meaningful to
bring into their home this year. Uh, we
could use a lot of meaning and a lot of
values. And so, thank you, Dennis, for
putting this incredible work together
while healing and coming back to us. God
bless you. Thank you.
>> God bless you.
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