Katherine Nester Cross-Examines Officer in Charlie Kirk Shooting Case: No Security, No Drones, and the George Zinn Mystery

[00:00] They've just broken for lunch uh in the

[00:02] hearing, but just prior to doing that,

[00:05] they were finishing up with this officer

[00:08] on the stand and he was being

[00:10] cross-examined by Katherine Netor, who

[00:14] represented Corey Richens, the woman who

[00:17] killed her husband with fentinel in his

[00:20] drink, and then did a world tour, not

[00:23] really, but a media tour trying to

[00:25] promote her children's book, trying to

[00:27] teach children how to grieve well in the

[00:29] loss of a parent. Ridiculous. In any

[00:31] event, she didn't get uh the that wife

[00:35] off, Corey Rigggins, but now she's

[00:36] hoping that she can get Tyler Robinson

[00:39] off. Um she was cross-examining here on

[00:44] Well, let's just play the first sound

[00:46] bite. Sot six.

[00:47] >> Um

[00:49] the machines you walk through at TSA in

[00:51] the airport where it checks to see if

[00:53] you're carrying any anything metal, what

[00:55] we all had to go through to get in the

[00:56] courtroom. Were there any machines like

[00:58] that set up or being used on campus that

[01:00] day?

[01:00] >> No.

[01:02] >> And as far as you know, were there any

[01:06] drones that were flying above campus

[01:09] that day?

[01:10] >> Not that I know of.

[01:12] >> And did anyone ever talk to you about

[01:15] covering anything near or on top of or

[01:18] in the Losi building? Were you ever

[01:20] signed that area before the shooting?

[01:23] >> No.

[01:24] >> Do you know who was? I don't.

[01:28] >> And when you got up to the roof that

[01:30] afternoon,

[01:32] [clears throat] was anybody around that

[01:34] was law enforcement?

[01:35] >> No.

[01:36] >> Nobody on the roof?

[01:37] >> No.

[01:38] >> Nobody on the stairway?

[01:40] >> Nope.

[01:40] >> Nobody on the walkway?

[01:41] >> Nope.

[01:43] >> Okay.

[01:48] And in the state of Utah, are is a

[01:51] campus a gun-free zone? Are students

[01:54] allowed to have guns on campus?

[01:55] >> It's an open state, so yes.

[02:01] >> Interesting. Uh guys, thanks for being

[02:03] here. Where where's she going with that?

[02:05] Uh Mark Geragos there. No mags, no

[02:08] drones, no cops on the roof,

[02:11] inadequate protection is really what

[02:13] she's arguing.

[02:14] >> Correct. And uh by the way, for those

[02:18] who are conspiracy theorists, it fits

[02:21] exactly into what many of the conspiracy

[02:25] theories are. And if you're in a

[02:28] criminal case, all you need is one

[02:30] person and one person to start asking

[02:33] those questions. I don't understand why

[02:36] this wasn't here. I don't understand why

[02:38] that wasn't here. Unless somebody use um

[02:42] as kind of a cutout or a proxy. So that

[02:44] would be my guess as to where she's

[02:47] going. She's certainly this is not a

[02:49] civil case so to speak where you would

[02:52] be talking about liability for failure

[02:55] to provide security. So, the kind of

[02:58] logical, if you will, uh, if I were a

[03:01] prosecutor, and I'll leave that for Matt

[03:03] because God forbid that's the last thing

[03:05] I'd ever want to be, is the the

[03:09] prosecutor generally would be jumping up

[03:11] and down, objecting to this, saying,

[03:14] "This is completely irrelevant. This is

[03:16] a fishing expedition, and where are they

[03:19] going with this? This isn't discovery.

[03:21] It's a probable cause hearing." How many

[03:22] times I've heard guys like Matt tell me

[03:25] that

[03:27] That makes a lot of sense, Matt, that

[03:28] that that's what she's doing. Like

[03:31] because if you believe that Tyler

[03:35] Robinson was being used as a tool by

[03:38] some other nefarious actor to pull the

[03:41] trigger or that he may not have been the

[03:44] trigger man and that this whole thing

[03:46] was done in a different way. Maybe you

[03:49] do want to establish, oh, security was

[03:52] conveniently missing from the scene that

[03:55] day, right? Because like the whole you

[03:57] can call it conspiracy theorist,

[03:58] whatever, but the whole business of

[03:59] conspiracy theory is you know better.

[04:03] You there's an inside job. There's

[04:05] something happening that you don't

[04:07] understand unless you're one of the

[04:08] smart ones. And one of the things that's

[04:10] been done is to remove security

[04:13] apparatus from this from the roof from

[04:16] the whatever such that the plan can

[04:19] unfold

[04:21] as as expected. And so, yeah, why else

[04:24] would this defense lawyer be going to

[04:26] that place?

[04:29] >> Well, yeah. Um, I'm going to I'm going

[04:31] to take a position here that I'm going

[04:34] to uh probably contradict myself on

[04:36] numerous times during the penalty of

[04:38] this case. Um, you know, there are three

[04:41] main areas of attack in the appellet

[04:43] process, Megan. Um, they accuse the

[04:45] judge of improper instruction. They they

[04:47] accuse the prosecutor of uh

[04:49] prosecutorial misconduct. and they will

[04:51] accuse the defense of what is known as

[04:53] IA or ineffective assistance of counsel.

[04:56] So, um I think that some of this is just

[05:00] checking the boxes. Um you know, and I

[05:03] think we're going to see more of that uh

[05:05] by her. Um I I think that's the the

[05:08] generous interpretation of it. There's a

[05:10] a thing known as the Dunning Krueger

[05:12] effect that I know you're familiar with

[05:13] and that is basically if you're really

[05:15] stupid, how would you know it? And the

[05:19] most interesting thing to me about

[05:20] watching this preliminary hearing this

[05:22] morning are the comments. Um because it

[05:25] is shocking how many people are buying

[05:28] into the conspiracy theories and how

[05:31] could it be this and and Mark's exactly

[05:33] right. It's like the the the dream, the

[05:36] home run is one of those loons um gets

[05:38] on the jury and somehow hangs it up. And

[05:41] I listened to the last segment. Dave

[05:42] Aronberg, my friend, was uh was exactly

[05:45] right on that. you know that they would

[05:47] love to hang it um or establish some

[05:49] sort of lingering doubt that's going to

[05:51] carry over into the penalty phase. And

[05:53] remember this this is only a preliminary

[05:55] hearing. The judge only has to make a

[05:57] call um as a magistrate. That's the role

[06:00] he's playing today. Although he is going

[06:02] to be the trial judge as well. Um it's

[06:04] just a probable cause hearing and by the

[06:07] end of today there's probably going to

[06:08] be enough probable cause to bind him

[06:10] over which is which is going to happen.

[06:14] Here's something else that was asked

[06:17] moments ago just to set it up. Viva,

[06:20] there was and we made reference to it uh

[06:22] earlier. There was a man who was

[06:24] initially detained by police as the

[06:27] suspect in this case who we were later

[06:30] told has nothing to do with this case.

[06:32] His name is George Zinn. And here's just

[06:36] a little bit about George Zinn that we

[06:39] now know. He has a lengthy criminal

[06:40] record in Utah dating back decades. Um

[06:43] the better documented prior cases

[06:46] include in the 80s to the 20s numerous

[06:49] arrests and convictions too for criminal

[06:52] trespass, disorderly conduct, disrupting

[06:54] public meetings and other misdemeanor

[06:55] offenses to u tied to protests and

[06:59] political events. Prosecutors describe

[07:01] him as a frequent repeat offender rather

[07:03] than someone known for violent felonies.

[07:06] 2013 Salt Lake City Marathon bomb

[07:08] threat. Days after the Boston Marathon

[07:10] bombing, Zinn asked race organizers

[07:12] whether they needed help setting up

[07:15] bombs at the marathon finish line. They

[07:19] treated it as a threat. He was

[07:20] convicted, served a year in prison.

[07:21] Mental health concerns, court records

[07:23] show uh the guy's got some issues there.

[07:26] September, he falsely confessed to

[07:28] shooting Charlie, resulting in an

[07:30] obstruction of justice charge after he

[07:32] admitted that he was just trying to

[07:33] divert investigators. In 2025, child

[07:36] sexual abuse material um was found, more

[07:40] than 20 images on his cell phone after

[07:43] his detention. He pleaded guilty to two

[07:45] counts of sexual exploitation of a

[07:47] minor. All this is very bad for this

[07:49] guy, George Zinn. One does wonder what

[07:52] he was doing at the Charlie Kirk event

[07:54] in the first place, but you may recall

[07:57] this videotape of him moments after the

[08:00] shooting. Watch.

[08:30] for listening audiences, police pulling

[08:32] him away and putting him in a squad car

[08:34] and people screaming and he confessed

[08:36] and he said like he did it. That's

[08:38] George Zinn. Watch what happened when

[08:41] Katherine Netor raised the issue of

[08:44] George Zinn and this arrest with officer

[08:48] Chris Bagley moments ago.

[08:50] >> It was your understanding the person

[08:52] they took into custody was close by Mr.

[08:56] Kirk. Is that right?

[08:57] >> Yep. But it didn't occur to you that

[08:59] well that's not where I heard the shot

[09:01] come from. They must have the wrong

[09:02] person. I should talk to somebody

[09:04] >> during the chaos moment. No, that's that

[09:06] they said they had person in custody. I

[09:07] figured those guys saw something I

[09:09] didn't see. They took the person in

[09:10] custody and I thought that was him.

[09:11] >> Okay.

[09:15] Okay. So that now we're getting more on

[09:17] point, Viva, of trying to make the cops

[09:19] look like idiots. You can't trust

[09:21] anything they said or did around this

[09:23] case. Do you agree that's where she's

[09:25] going? Well, I I think she's just going

[09:27] with more is more for the defense. Let

[09:30] them say something that they can then

[09:31] argue in the court of public opinion

[09:33] that they can then use to have whoever

[09:36] is, you know, promoting theories that

[09:37] Tyler Robinson is innocent. You know,

[09:39] you can have that fight in the court of

[09:40] public opinion and potentially poison

[09:42] the jury pool. Um, what I I don't have

[09:46] no patience for that. What I don't

[09:48] understand is people who think of other

[09:50] theories like the exploding mic theory

[09:52] and they actually claim to sincerely

[09:54] believe this despite any sort of

[09:55] evidence. I can appreciate people saying

[09:57] Tyler Robinson is a psy and they'll

[10:00] attack the evidence.

[10:01] >> Just just just hold that thought for one

[10:02] second so I can tell people what you're

[10:03] talking about. There there is a theory

[10:04] on the internet that Charlie wasn't shot

[10:07] by this 30 six or any other gun. that

[10:11] the people who believe this was a

[10:13] planned assassination by some other

[10:15] nefarious group had put a mic on Charlie

[10:18] that exploded and it made his shirt puff

[10:22] out and his necklace puff out and then I

[10:26] guess residual shrapnel

[10:29] injured his neck but that this was a

[10:31] planned assassination

[10:33] that in which the mic exploded and

[10:36] killed him as opposed to this gun. Go

[10:38] ahead.

[10:38] >> Correct. Yes. I I presume everybody was

[10:41] familiar with that. But you know the

[10:42] people who want to say Tyler Robinson

[10:44] couldn't have done it because a 306

[10:46] doesn't behave like that, whatever that

[10:48] means. Uh and that they have to find

[10:50] some other conspiracy theory. What I

[10:52] think the defense is doing right now is

[10:54] just get them to say more that would

[10:56] allow, you know, the people out there

[10:57] promoting these ideas to pick holes in

[10:59] it, find contradictions. Oh, you said

[11:01] there were no drones, but yet uh

[11:03] Charlie's team flew a drone early on in

[11:05] the event. So if they were forbidden,

[11:06] how did the team fly these drones? This

[11:09] is all not to uh you know contradict the

[11:11] preliminary hearing. There will be

[11:13] probable cause period full stop. I think

[11:15] they're just getting as much as they can

[11:17] out there to muddy the waters between

[11:19] now and the trial. And and I just want

[11:21] you I want to flesh one thing out also.

[11:23] George Zinn people need to understand

[11:25] just how wild a coincidence if it's

[11:27] unrelated that you have an old man with

[11:29] child sexual abuse material on his phone

[11:32] causing a distraction so that the

[11:33] shooter can get away. And people want to

[11:36] entertain what I think are untenable

[11:38] conspiracy theories. How about just ask

[11:39] some legitimate questions? I put it out

[11:41] on Twitter a while back. You know, who

[11:43] was on these Discord chats? Did George

[11:45] Zinn know something was going to happen

[11:47] there? There were people who posted in

[11:49] advance that something big was going to

[11:50] happen at the event. We still don't have

[11:52] answers to those questions. Whether or

[11:53] not the defense is going to say he was a

[11:55] psy, but he was, you know, brainwashed

[11:58] by people online, we'll see. There are

[12:01] legitimate questions that have not yet

[12:02] been answered. George Zinn being there,

[12:05] taking credit for it so that the shooter

[12:07] could get away, then getting caught with

[12:08] Cessam on his phone. I would love to

[12:11] know if George Zin had anything to do

[12:12] with any of the Discord chats in

[12:14] advance. He's an old man in, you know,

[12:16] with child sexual abuse material. He

[12:18] might be somehow anonymously involved in

[12:20] Discord chats involving the furry

[12:21] community. And these are the questions

[12:23] that have not yet been answered that

[12:24] don't exonerate Tyler Robinson, but

[12:27] might be indicative of a broader

[12:29] conspiracy implicating others who were

[12:31] told for the time being no one else was

[12:32] involved. It was just Tyler Robinson.

[12:35] >> Mhm. That's very fair. Uh because the

[12:37] Discord messages, I read the some of the

[12:39] text messages between Tyler and Lance

[12:41] Twigs alleged earlier. Here's some of

[12:44] the Discord messages. Again, this is

[12:45] like this gamer website where they both

[12:47] participated. Um this is from a

[12:50] Washington Post article from September

[12:52] 15th of 25. The 22-year-old suspect

[12:54] appears to have confessed to friends in

[12:56] an online chat shortly before turning

[12:58] himself into law enforcement. Hey guys,

[13:00] I have bad news for you all. Read a

[13:02] message from an account belonging to the

[13:04] suspect Tyler Robinson on Discord. It

[13:06] was me at UVU yesterday. I'm sorry for

[13:09] all of this. It was sent Thursday night

[13:11] about 2 hours before officials said

[13:13] Robinson was taken into custody. Charlie

[13:15] was killed on a Wednesday. A member of

[13:17] the group chat shared an image of the

[13:19] conversation with the post. Discord

[13:21] provided a copy of the message with the

[13:23] confession to authorities. Uh the

[13:25] message was sent from Robinson's account

[13:27] to a small private group of online

[13:29] friends. Uh the Discord conversation

[13:32] shared with the post shows members of

[13:33] the group chat reacting to Kirk shooting

[13:35] Wednesday before the news broke that

[13:36] Robinson was allegedly involved. The

[13:38] group had about 30 people. And uh

[13:41] somebody wrote, "Charlie Kirk got shot.

[13:43] I just saw the video. Holy Ro did

[13:45] not deserve to go out like that. Sad."

[13:48] The only response from Robinson's

[13:49] account came the next day, Thursday,

[13:51] with a message announcing, quote, "bad

[13:52] news that I just read." It goes on to

[13:54] say to read, "I'm surrendering through a

[13:57] sheriff friend in a few moments." That

[13:59] was posted at 7:57 p.m. local time on

[14:02] Thursday in Utah. It continued, "Thanks

[14:04] for all the good times and laughs.

[14:06] You've all been so amazing. Thank you

[14:08] all for everything. Robinson was taken

[14:10] into custody 2 hours later at 10 p.m.

[14:13] that night per the FBI director, Cash

[14:15] Patel." Um, let's see. One friend the

[14:19] they said no one responded to Robinson

[14:21] that night but but the next day one

[14:24] friend wrote that the apparent

[14:25] confession seemed to be true. The friend

[14:27] asked group members to quote pray for

[14:29] Tyler and his repentance. The New York

[14:32] Times reported on a conversation in a

[14:34] different Discord chat group earlier the

[14:36] same day. In that conversation, Robinson

[14:39] joked that a doppelganger was trying to

[14:42] get him in trouble after law enforcement

[14:44] released images of the shooting suspect

[14:48] um who resembled Robinson.

[14:51] Thanks for watching this clip. If you're

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