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Officer Bagley Testimony Reveals Sniper Position Evidence After Charlie Kirk Campus Shooting Incident at UVU
Officer Bagley provides detailed testimony about the September 10, 2025 shooting incident at Utah Valley University during Charlie Kirk's campus event. He describes discovering a disturbed gravel area resembling a sniper position on the Losee Center rooftop, with direct line of sight to where Kirk was speaking to thousands of students. The officer details his response to the gunshot, the chaotic scene that followed, and the critical evidence he secured, including a screwdriver, shoe impressions, and surveillance footage showing a suspect fleeing northeast across the rooftop after the shot was fired at approximately 12:23 PM.
The Campus Event and Initial Response
Officer Bagley arrived at Utah Valley University on September 10, 2025, for a special shift to provide security during a guest speaking event featuring Charlie Kirk. Kirk had arrived on campus behind the west side of the Hall of Flags, where vehicles could drive underneath to access the courtyard area. The conservative commentator set up under a white tent in the courtyard, where he engaged in meet-and-greets, photo opportunities, and answered questions from attendees.
The crowd that gathered was substantial. Officer Bagley estimated several thousand people were present, packed into the amphitheater grass area, standing along cement walkways, and positioned on multiple levels of surrounding buildings including the Sorenson and Woodbury buildings. The atmosphere was that of a well-attended campus event, with students and community members filling every available viewing space.
The Gunshot at 12:23 PM
At approximately 12:20 PM, Officer Bagley was stationed on the south end of the Hall of Flags when he heard Charlie Kirk answering a question from a student. At exactly 12:23 PM, a shot rang out. From his vantage point, Bagley could see the right side of Kirk's shoulder beneath the tent. Immediately after the gunshot, he observed Kirk lean sharply to the left, moving further under the tent toward the north side, disappearing from view.
The crowd's reaction was immediate and chaotic. People began screaming, standing up, and running in all directions away from the tent. Officer Bagley, recognizing the sound as gunfire, left his post and attempted to descend the outdoor stairs between the Fugal building and Hall of Flags. His path was obstructed by panicked attendees running upward and lying on the steps, forcing him to jump over people to reach the ground level.
Initial Assessment and Crime Scene Recognition
By the time Officer Bagley reached the bottom of the stairs, radio communications indicated that a shooter was already in custody. This quick apprehension seemed unusual to him, suggesting the threat must have been at close range. With the immediate danger apparently neutralized, he shifted his focus to assessing injuries and securing the scene.
While canvassing the area, Bagley encountered what appeared to be an injured individual on the second or third tier of the grass amphitheater, near a wheelchair. The person seemed to be convulsing, leading Bagley to initially suspect a gunshot wound. However, after speaking with the individual's father, he learned the person was experiencing a seizure unrelated to the shooting. No other injuries were apparent at that time.
As the crowd began to disperse, Chief Long and Officer Bagley discovered an empty pistol holster lying on the grass. This discovery prompted a critical realization: the sound Bagley had heard was more consistent with a rifle shot than a handgun. Based on his training and experience with firearms, he recognized that handguns produce a short "bang" or "pop" sound, while rifles create a longer, more violent crack or bang. The acoustic signature he had heard was definitely rifle-like, and the sound had come from the east.
Discovery on the Losee Building Rooftop
Looking up from the courtyard, Officer Bagley noticed that the Losee building had a direct line of sight to where the shooting occurred. He immediately proceeded to investigate, entering the Sorenson Center and climbing four flights of stairs to reach the fourth level of the Losee building. From there, he accessed an outdoor public stairway on the south side, in the breezeway between the computer science building and the Losee building, which led to the rooftop.
Officer Bagley reached the rooftop at approximately 12:44 PM. After hopping over the guardrail onto the roof's gravel surface, he noticed an object about 10 to 15 feet to the west that appeared out of place: a red and black screwdriver. He did not touch or disturb this potential evidence.
More significantly, Bagley observed a disturbance in the gravel that immediately caught his attention. The pattern in the gravel resembled what he recognized as a sniper pad or prone shooting position, with visible impressions suggesting where someone had positioned their elbows, knees, and feet. This position was on the southwest side of the Losee building rooftop, providing a direct line of sight to Charlie Kirk's tent in the courtyard below.
Securing the Primary Crime Scene
Officer Bagley immediately secured the southwest corner of the Losee rooftop with yellow police crime scene tape, cordoning off the area around the disturbed gravel and the screwdriver. He placed tape spanning from pipes on the right side of the area, around a silver vent, and back down to the corner to prevent anyone from entering or disturbing potential evidence. He also used the natural barrier of the guardrail, where access to the roof was gained, as an additional secured perimeter.
Before leaving the primary scene at approximately 1:01 PM, Officer Bagley left the rooftop in the care of a female county deputy with explicit instructions not to allow anyone inside the crime scene unless they were police officers or investigators. At this point, the full scope of what had occurred was becoming clearer, but crucial information was still emerging.
Surveillance Video Review
Upon discovering the prone position on the Losee rooftop, Officer Bagley realized that the individual initially taken into custody might not be the actual shooter. He immediately contacted dispatch to review the campus camera system for footage of anyone on the Losee building rooftop during the time of the incident.
Dispatch confirmed that surveillance showed a male individual on the roof at the time of the shooting. The subject's movements were described as running west toward the southwest edge of the building—directly toward the area with line of sight to Kirk's tent—then dropping into what appeared to be a prone position. After the shot was fired, the individual stood up and ran northeast across the rooftop.
Officer Bagley then went to the police department, located on the third level of the Gunther Trade building directly south of the Losee Center, to personally review the footage. This review confirmed the described sequence of events and revealed a critical additional detail: the suspect dropped off the northeast side of the Losee building.
Secondary Crime Scene on Northeast Lawn
With the knowledge that the suspect had fled northeast and dropped from the building, Officer Bagley expanded his crime scene preservation efforts. He responded to the northeast side of the Losee building, where he discovered deep shoe impressions embedded in the grass below where the suspect would have landed after dropping from the roof.
Looking up at the building from this position, Bagley observed fresh scuff marks on the cement edge of the roof that had not been there previously. These marks appeared consistent with someone climbing down or dropping from the rooftop. The shoe print in the grass was notably deep, suggesting significant impact, and the impression continued in a northeast direction.
Officer Bagley secured this secondary scene with additional crime scene tape, creating a perimeter that extended around trees, up beyond the visible area of the northeast lawn, and down to the back side of the LDS Institute building where a sidewalk provided a natural boundary. This prevented anyone from approaching the evidence from that direction.
He assigned two uniformed Utah Valley University police officers to guard this secondary scene with the same instructions: allow no one to enter except law enforcement or investigators. Like the primary scene on the rooftop, Officer Bagley was careful not to walk through or otherwise disturb the shoe impression or any other potential evidence in the cordoned area.
Evidence Documentation
The physical evidence documented from the Losee rooftop painted a detailed picture of what had occurred. The disturbed gravel showed a pattern consistent with someone lying in a prone shooting position, with visible impressions for elbows, knees, and feet oriented toward the courtyard where Charlie Kirk had been speaking. The position was on the southwest corner of the rooftop, providing an unobstructed view west toward Utah Lake, with the Hall of Flags, the white tent, and the amphitheater grass area clearly visible below.
Forensic examiner Melissa Richards later documented the scene with nighttime photography, which revealed additional details. The photographs showed evidence markers placed at key locations, including marker number two at what appeared to be the primary prone position. Additional orange or red triangular markers indicated other points of interest, including what Officer Bagley described as a position "where somebody laid a gun down" toward the far right of the disturbed area.
The measuring tape visible in later crime scene photographs demonstrated the forensic team's efforts to document distances and spatial relationships. The nighttime lighting actually enhanced the visibility of the disturbance in the gravel, showing the length and outline of the prone position more clearly than daylight photographs had captured. Officer Bagley noted that what he observed with the naked eye at the scene was more distinct than what appeared in the daytime photographs, though the nighttime forensics photos did justice to the impression he had seen.
Line of Sight Analysis
The location of the disturbance on the Losee rooftop was particularly significant because it provided a direct, unobstructed line of sight to Charlie Kirk's position. From the southwest corner of the roof, the prone position faced west, looking down at the courtyard approximately four stories below. The white tent where Kirk had been taking questions was clearly visible, as was the surrounding area packed with several thousand attendees.
The Hall of Flags, a prominent campus landmark, was positioned between the Losee building and the courtyard but did not obstruct the view from the rooftop. Behind the courtyard, Interstate 15 was visible, and in the distance, Utah Lake and the mountain range provided geographical context. An LDS temple, lit up and visible in nighttime photographs, appeared in the upper left portion of the western view.
This elevated position would have provided whoever was lying in the prone position with a clear view of the target area while remaining largely unobserved by the crowd below. The fourth-level rooftop of the Losee building was not a typical gathering place, and someone positioned there would have been difficult to spot from ground level during the chaos of the event.
Investigation Command Center
After securing both crime scenes and ensuring they were under guard by law enforcement personnel, Officer Bagley proceeded to the Fugal building, where an incident command center had been established. His purpose was to relay the critical information he had discovered to responding units and commanding officers coordinating the broader investigation.
The evidence Bagley had secured painted a picture of a planned shooting from an elevated position, not the close-range incident initially suggested by the quick apprehension of a suspect. The screwdriver found on the roof, the disturbed gravel showing a prone shooting position, the surveillance footage of a suspect fleeing northeast across the rooftop, and the shoe impressions showing where the suspect dropped from the building all contributed to a more complete understanding of what had occurred during Charlie Kirk's campus event that afternoon.
Court Testimony and Evidence Admission
Officer Bagley's testimony was presented during a preliminary hearing where multiple pieces of photographic evidence were admitted over defense objections. The defense raised concerns about foundation, hearsay, and the presence of evidence markers in photographs that were not present when Officer Bagley first observed the scenes.
The prosecution argued successfully that hearsay evidence is admissible for establishing the foundation of exhibits, citing Utah rules of evidence and State v. Griffin (2016). The court overruled defense objections, noting that at a preliminary hearing, Article 1, Section 12 of the Utah Constitution permits the use of reliable hearsay evidence to determine probable cause, provided appropriate discovery is allowed.
Officer Bagley authenticated multiple photographs by testifying that they were fair and accurate representations of what he observed on September 10, 2025, with the understanding that evidence markers and measuring tape visible in some forensic photographs were added after his initial observations. His testimony established the chain of custody for the crime scenes and documented his efforts to preserve evidence without contamination.
Video Transcript
What was happening that morning, that
day on at campus at UVU?
>> I I came in to do a shift for a special
event that where we had a guest speaker
come in and was going to talk to the
students and people around the
neighborhood.
>> Do you know who the guest speaker was?
>> I do.
>> And who was that?
>> It was Charlie Kirk.
>> Did [clears throat] you see Mr. Kirk
that day?
>> I did.
>> When did you first see him? uh when he
arrived on campus uh just behind the
west side of uh the Hall of Flags, I saw
him pull up.
>> And can someone access the courtyard in
that through that area?
>> Yes, they can.
>> How so?
>> Uh where he pulled up underneath the
Hall of Flags is a opening to where you
could drive a car underneath. So there's
access right there. You could walk or
drive underneath the Hall of Flags.
>> And you saw him arrive?
>> Yes.
>> Okay.
Um,
can you describe what what you were what
you were seeing? What did you observe?
>> Um, on that day, I uh observed Charlie
going back doing some meet and greet
with some people, getting some photos
taken. Uh, he then came underneath the
Hall of Flags and went to his tent and
he was there as answering questions and
talking to individuals that would ask
him questions. The tent you're referring
to, is that the tent that we see when it
was set up in the courtyard?
>> Yeah, that white square tent.
>> The white top.
>> Yes, he was under that.
>> Fast forward to about about 12:20 or so.
So, a little bit after noon, the noon
hour. What happened? What did you see?
And what did you hear?
>> I heard an individual talking to Charlie
and I happened to kind of glance over
the edge of the railing about that time.
Um, I could see the right side of
Charlie's shoulder. So, not his whole
body because I had the he was underneath
the tent so I could only see probably
the right side of his body. Um, he was
answering a question. Kid asking him a
question and then I heard a shot fired.
>> Do you know what time that was?
>> Uh, yes.
>> What time was that?
>> 12:23.
>> What did you see
>> at that moment? I saw him lean to the
left. So, I
>> When you say him, you
>> Charlie.
>> Charlie.
>> Charlie. So I saw him go to the left
because I could no longer see the right
side of his body. So he went further
underneath the tent to the north side of
the tent. So left.
>> Okay. Um can you describe the reaction
of others that were there?
>> Uh yeah. So then um everybody started
getting up and starting to run uh in
more of a chaos kind of situation.
>> Before you continue, can you describe a
little bit? So you mentioned Mr. Kirk
was answering questions, talking to
individuals.
>> Yes.
>> Were there others present?
>> Yes.
>> Um, any idea about approximately how
many?
>> How would you describe it in your terms?
>> In my terms, I'd say when I was up there
looking down, I'd say there's several
thousand people because you had it on
the grass that was jam-packed in the
amphitheater sitting on the grass. You
had people standing on the back up along
the cement. You had people that were on
the second level, the Saenson, and over
by the Woodbury building. There's
another level there where a lot of
people are standing and watching.
So it was it was pretty packed. Several
thousand people.
>> You mentioned So you mentioned you heard
something. What did you hear again?
>> I heard a gunshot.
>> Okay. And can you describe the re you
described Mr. Kirk's reaction? Was that
simultaneous to hearing the the gunshot?
>> Yes, it was.
>> When he fell to the left.
>> Yes.
>> Did you see the reaction from the crowd?
>> Yes.
>> What was that?
>> Everybody kind of got up. They all said
a lot of people were screaming, standing
up, and starting to run in all different
directions away from the center of the
tent.
>> Okay. You're a police officer helping to
secure the area, correct?
>> Yes.
>> What did you do?
>> Um, at that moment, I recognized it as
gunfire. I uh I left my post, which was
right there on the south end of the Hall
of Flags. I went I proceeded to between
right where the Fugal and the Hall of
Flags meet. There's some outside stairs
that I was starting to run down. As I
was trying to get down to the bottom of
the stairs, people are running up.
People are laying down on the steps. I'm
trying to jump over people to get to the
bottom of the stairs so I can help uh
stop an individual that's probably
shooting.
>> Um
what happened next?
>> Um by the time I got to the bottom of
the stairs, we I was informed on the
radio that we had a shooter in custody.
So I thought at that moment I was like,
"Oh, that was kind of fast." Obviously,
it was close range probably because we
had an individual in custody. Another
officer came on said we had an
individual in custody. So, I decided to
since this since the threat is gone now,
I can assess for anybody that's injured
and start looking for any medical needs
that that's needed at that moment. Um, I
started canvasing the area. Um, as I
canvased the area, I was looking for
anybody that was injured. I saw a kid on
the ground that was on the about the
second or third tier of the in the grass
next to a wheelchair and he was almost
convulsing. I thought he'd maybe been
shot. Uh talked to the dad as I was
running over there. He said that he was
just having a seizure that he was fine.
He was not injured. So then at that
moment I I I observed that there was no
other injuries that I could see at that
moment.
>> Okay. Did Did was your attention drawn
to anything else at that time?
>> Yeah. So after we got some people kind
of cleared away a little bit, I thought
I needed to start preserving the scene
because we had a crime scene and with
some of my experience and training and
to that effect of I decided now we need
to contain the scene and help preserve
as much evidence as we can. So I started
pushing people off the grass um out of
the courtyard area because I knew that's
where the crime scene was. Um soon as we
started pushing those guys out, I uh my
my chief, Chief Long, that was right
next to me. I looked down and saw an
empty pistol holder that was sitting
just on top of the grass. And at that
moment, things had died down just a
split second. I realized that the shot I
heard was more of a rifle shot and not a
pistol shot.
>> And um what causes you to say that?
>> Uh just from being around firearms
through all my trainings, um the
difference is you know a handgun is more
of a short bang pop sound. Uh, with a
rifle you have a more of a longer
violent
bang or crackle sound. It's more of a
violent kind of sound. It's longer. So,
>> that's when I recognized it.
>> Okay. Is a is a rifle sound louder
typically?
>> Yes.
>> Okay. Um,
going back to when you heard this this
gunshot, could you tell
where where it came from?
>> Direction? Yes, I knew it came to the
from the east of me.
>> From the east of you. Okay.
>> So, you see this this realization comes
to your mind. What did you do next?
>> Um, at that moment when I saw the the
holster, the empty holster, I turned to
my chief and I said, "That was that was
a rifle shot." And he said, "I agree."
And I looked up. At that moment, uh,
right in the line of sight, I could see
the Losi building had a direct line of
sight. So, I proceeded to go look at
that and see what was going on up there.
>> Okay. Can you just briefly describe your
route to the Losi Center?
>> So from the courtyard you can go into
the Sorenson Center and like I said
there earlier there was on level one
there's some elevators or there stairs.
I ran up four flights of stairs uh got
to the fourth level of the Losi building
and proceeded to the south of the Losi
building. There's some stairs which is
at uh breezeway between the computer
science building and the Losi building.
There's some stairs that go up to the
top of that and so I went to the top of
that.
>> Is that the stairway that you previously
described?
>> Yes, on the outside of the Los building
just
>> Okay. That it's an and it's a public
stairway.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Um did you make it to the rooftop?
>> I did.
>> Do you know about what time you got
there?
>> Um I pro I got up there 12:44.
>> Okay. Um what did you do when you got on
top? Uh when I got on top, I hopped over
the guardrail. Um I noticed that there
was a an object which was sitting right
about 10 or 15 feet in from the other
side of the guardrail in the gravel.
That looked out of place to me.
>> And in relationship to where you hopped
over the guardrail, what direction was
that object?
>> Uh to the west of the guardrail.
>> Okay. And um did you recognize the
object?
>> I did.
>> And what was it?
>> It was a red and black screwdriver.
Okay. Um, did you touch that object?
>> I did not.
>> Okay.
I am going to refer the witness on your
screen, officer Bagley, to states
exhibit 3.1.
Let me know when you see that.
>> Yes, I see it.
>> Do you recognize what that is?
>> I do.
>> And what is that? That's a picture of
the screwdriver that I saw that day on
top of the rooftop of the Losi building.
>> Okay.
And that's how it appeared on the roof
that day.
>> Yes.
>> Is that a fair and accurate portrayal of
the screwdriver you observed and found
that day?
>> Yes.
>> You're on the state offers states
exhibit 3.1.
>> Miss Netor, your honor, we renew,
[clears throat] excuse me, we renew our
standing objection and object on the
grounds that there's no foundation laid
as to when the photo was taken or by
whom. Thank you.
>> Same response, judge. My previous
arguments.
>> And did you state that this was a fair
and accurate representation as of
September 10th, 2025?
>> I had said that day. I'll ask it again.
>> All right.
>> To the officer, officer Baggley, um you
were you saw this screwdriver you're
describing on September 10th, 2025. Is
that correct?
>> Yes. Is states exhibit 3.1 a fair and
accurate uh depiction of that
screwdriver that day, September 10th,
2025?
>> Yes.
>> All right.
>> State moves to admit. I will go ahead
and admit states exhibit 3.1 is admitted
based off the firsthand knowledge of
this uh what this image purports to be
and it is a fair and accurate
representation
as uh this item on that date of
September 10th 2025 and this exhibit may
be published. Your honor, before we
continue to publish it and ask a few
more questions, right now might be a
good time to take a break.
>> All right,
>> if that's okay at the court.
>> All right, let's come back at it's
10:43. Let's go ahead and come back.
Well, 10:44.
>> All right, Mr. Gander.
>> Thank you, Judge. [clears throat]
Officer Baggley, so you testified that
this is the screwdriver as you saw it on
September 10th, 2025, correct?
>> Yes. Um, I'm going to uh
And this was on top of which roof?
>> The Loy building.
>> And in relationship to the entrance that
the stairway and when you hopped over
the rail to get there,
>> where was it located?
>> About 10 or 15 feet in.
>> Okay. If I could um your honor bring up
states exhibit number two that was
previously admitted. I would like to
have um officer Baggley come down from
the witness stand and point on that
exhibit where approximately where this
screwdriver was located and describe it
for the record.
>> All right, you may step down and if you
have a microphone for him as well.
>> I think there was one up there. Oh, here
we go.
So, if you can describe where you where
you saw that screwdriver point to that.
>> Yeah. So, this is the Losi building
right here with the light gray. Here's
the guardrail in the center of the
picture with the red brick just over
that about 10 15 feet in about right
there.
>> About right there. Okay. Now, on this
exhibit, exhibit 3.1, there's an
evidence tag yellow number five. Was
that present when you found the
screwdriver?
>> No.
>> Okay. So that was left there by an
evidence tech.
>> Yes.
>> Okay. Thank you. You can take your seat
again.
>> Officer, I'm going to uh direct your
attention to your monitor again and have
you look at states exhibit 3.2.
And if you'll let me know when you see
that.
>> Okay, I see it.
>> Okay. And can you tell us what that is?
>> Uh, yes. That's the picture of the top
of the Losi building looking west.
>> Okay. And how do you know that that is
in fact the top of Losce Center looking
west?
>> I can see the landmarks of several
buildings that the Fugal buildings on
the top left of it. You've got on the
right is a white roof which is the
Sorenson building on the right side of
the picture. Uh this is also the gravel
area on top of the LC building.
>> Okay. Um can you see the courtyard from
this exhibit?
>> Yes, a little bit.
>> Um what about the tent that was set up
that Mr. Kirk was underneath?
>> Yes.
>> Okay. What about the Hall of Flags?
>> Yes.
>> Um
did you mention that this was facing
west? What what direction are we
looking?
>> We're looking west towards Utah Lake.
>> Okay, officer. Is this a fair and
accurate um depiction of what you
observed on September 10th, 2025 on top
of the Losi building?
>> Yes.
>> State offers states exhibit 3.2. Judge
>> Miss Nester,
[clears throat]
>> your honor, I think that we renew our
standing objection. Um, there is an
evidence tag here which begs the
question that it's not a fair and
accurate representation of how he saw
it. Um, and we also don't have any
indication about when this picture was
taken or by whom. So, we object to its
admission.
>> I see. Thank you, Mr. Grander.
>> Officer, one one more question. Judge
Officer Baggley, apart from the evidence
tag, do you see an evidence tag on that
photograph?
>> Yes, I do. Was that present when you
were on top of the Losi center and has
observed this?
>> That was not.
>> Okay. Otherwise, is it fair and
accurate?
>> Yes.
>> State moves to admit.
>> Anything further?
>> No, your honor.
>> All right. Thank you. Given that
follow-up question, noting that the
evidence tag, it appears to be number
two on states exhibit 3.2 was not
present, but otherwise it is a fair and
accurate representation as stated by the
witness uh to uh stage exhibit 3.2, the
court will uh admit it into evidence and
it may be published at the discretion of
or the request of councel.
Your state would move to publish it.
>> All right.
>> Officer Bagley, will you describe um
what it is that we're looking at here?
Uh yes, on on the top of the photo, uh
you got the mountain range on the back.
That's going to be looking west. You
also have Utah Lake, which is towards
the top of it. As you come down towards
the center, on the top, you've got a
pond, which is the ponds over at Utah
Valley University. Uh you come down from
that from where the water meets that red
baked part, more towards the center is
the Hall of Flags. And just below that
where you can see the grass and the
white tent is where Charlie Kirk was
sitting looking west. And we're on top
of the Losi building.
>> And is this is this depicting a
particular corner of the Losi rooftop?
>> Yes, it is.
>> And this is the top rooftop.
>> Yes.
>> Um is it the same level where we
observed the atrium that's to the north?
>> Uh the atrium's up just a little bit
higher. So this is level the top level
four.
>> Level four. Okay. And uh what what area
of the rooftop are we looking at here?
>> You're looking
>> as far as the gravel
>> southwest side of the Losi building.
>> Southwest side. Okay. Um
is there a line of sight down into the
courtyard?
>> Yes, there is
>> in that area. Okay. What else do you
observe on this um exhibit that's
significant to you, officer?
Uh there was some disturbance in the
gravel right where and around the area
where the in the area where the yellow
marker is is there was some disturbance
that caught my eye there.
>> Okay. And um does this photograph do it
justice?
>> No.
>> And how so?
>> Uh you can't really see the impression I
saw the time of when I was up there the
on that day. I saw a distinct impression
in the gravel and this does not show
that.
>> Okay. So, you could see more with the
naked eye.
>> Yes.
>> Okay. Um I'm going to refer the witness
to states exhibit
four on your monitor there
and let me know when you can see that.
>> Okay, I can see it.
And do you recognize that exhibit?
>> I do.
>> And what is that?
>> This is a nighttime view of that same
photo uh that was just last uh same view
looking west and I can see the
disturbance in the gravel.
>> And what tells you that this is uh the
same photograph as the last one as
exhibit 3.2?
>> You can see the hall flags. That's
direct almost the top of the photo. In
the middle you got the hall flags. You
can see the tent and the grass area, the
direct line of sight with the Sorson
building and I'm on top of the gravel of
the Losi building southwest side.
>> Is there also an LDS temple that's
depicted in that photograph?
>> There is. It's going to be on the top
left of the photo as lit up.
>> Okay. Um,
do you know who took this photo?
>> I do.
>> And who took this photo?
>> Melissa Richards.
>> And um, who is Melissa Richards? Uh
she's the lead senior uh forensic for
forensic for the state of Utah.
>> Okay.
>> Examiner.
>> And um
how do you know that she took this
photograph?
>> I I spoke to her.
>> Okay.
Um
>> let's renew the objection to hearsay.
That's an outstanding objection.
>> Thank you. Mr. Grander, do you want to
respond to the objection about hearsay?
>> Um yes, judge. Under rule 1102, hearsay
is admissible to establish the
foundation or for or the authenticity of
any exhibit that's found in 1102
subb
sub3.
Um I would also point out for the court
that under rule 1101
which is the applicability of the rules
um in uh subsection C1
uh the determination of questions of
fact preliminary to ad admissibility of
evidence when it's determined under rule
104 which are preliminary questions um
the the rules of evidence do not apply.
Uh 104 speaks directly to providing
laying foundation for an exhibit. So
even at trial, hearsay is admissible to
establish the foundation of an exhibit.
I would also just point the court um to
state v. Griffin. This is a 2016 Utah
Supreme Court case.
Um
the citation is 384 Pacific 31 186 which
stands for hearsay evidence is
admissible to establish the foundation
of an exhibit even at trial. And we're
at a preliminary hearing today, judge.
>> All right. Anything further, Miss
Nester, before I issue a ruling?
>> No, your honor.
>> All right.
I'm going to overrule the uh the
objection to hearsay. I note that the
standing objection by defense. I also
note rule 1102. And I also look to
article 1, section 12 of the Utah
Constitution,
which states, "Nothing in this
constitution shall preclude the use of
reliable hearsay evidence as defined by
statute or rule in whole or in part at
any preliminary examination to determine
probable cause or at any pre-trial
proceeding with respect to release of
defendant if appropriate discovery is
allowed as defined by statute or rule.
For those reasons, u overrule the
objection and as it relates to reliable
hearsay in this instance, uh you may
proceed.
>> Officer Bagley, did you ask Miss
Richards if this was a fair and accurate
depiction of this scene on the Losi
building on the night of September 10th,
2025?
>> Yes.
>> And what did she tell you?
>> She said it was.
>> Okay. Your state offers states exhibit
four.
Miss Nester
>> just object to relying on what Ms.
Richards told him in terms of creating
the foundation and refer back to our
standing objection.
>> The state will submit it.
>> All right. Well, as I look at states
exhibit 4 and again I'm just looking at
it before me. I I it said it was a fair
and accurate representation.
Um there's there's a notation I mean in
previous exhibits there's a marker
exhibited marker and I see two but it
also appears to be other artifacts on
this image that I haven't heard uh any
testimony about and and so I will follow
up judge.
>> All right
officer Bagley, do you see an evidence
tag in that exhibit?
>> Yes, I do. A number two.
>> A number two and that's yellow and
black.
>> Yes.
>> Do you see other um evidence markers
that are red in color? Uh yes, they are
to me they're orange but they're
triangular shaped.
>> Okay. Um were those markers the evidence
tag two as well as the orange or red
markers present when you u observed that
scene that day?
>> No.
>> Okay. Um were they present however when
Ms. Richards took this photograph?
>> Yes.
>> And she indicated to you that that is a
fair and accurate representation of what
she observed that night?
>> Yes. State would move to admit exhibit
four. Judge
>> Miss Nester.
>> Objections, your honor.
>> Thank you, Miss Nester. Going to go
ahead and overrule the objection. Uh
noting that the marker, evidence marker,
as well as the red or orange markers, I
can't tell which color it is, was not
present originally. With those uh
[clears throat] included information,
states exhibit 4 is admitted into
evidence and may be published.
>> Thank you. The state would move to
publish that.
>> All right.
And I would ask for the witness to come
down to uh explain the exhibit.
>> All right. Officer, if you'd like to
step down, use the microphone. And as
previously noted, uh, describe when
you're describing something on the
image, where it is located on the image
for the benefit of our recording.
>> So, officer, will you describe for the
court what it is that you're looking at?
>> So, what I'm looking at is I'm on top of
the Losi building, which is where the
gravel is on towards the bottom center.
I'm looking west uh towards the tent
which is in the upper center that you
got a white tent. You can see the grass
down there in the amphitheater. You got
the Hall of Flags that's more towards
the top center and behind that you've
got I-15.
But what I'm looking at is in the
disturbance of the gravel is what I saw
that day.
>> Okay. And what can you describe for the
record that disturbance?
To me, when I when I got up there and I
could see this disturbance in gravel,
um, to me, it looks like a a sniper pad,
a person that has been laying in a prone
position, and you've got markings of
elbows, knees, and feet to where
somebody was in the line of sight of
where Charlie's tent was.
>> Thank you. And if we could again take
the uh
if we could publish states exhibit
number two.
You recognize that, right, officer?
>> Yes, I do.
>> Where on the Losi rooftop did you
observe this disturbance in the gravel?
>> You go to the center. If you go to the
center of the picture in the darker gray
part of it, um on the left side, so the
south side of the Losi building, it
would be right in the line of sight of
the Charlie Kirk tent that's straight in
front of it.
>> Okay.
>> Or the southwest side of the roof. Thank
you. You can take your seat.
And finally, I would direct the
witness's attention to states exhibit
number five on the monitor.
Let me know when that's there.
>> It is.
>> Is it is it there?
>> Do you recognize that exhibit?
>> I do.
>> And what is that?
>> This is going to be a picture of the
side profile of that last photo we
looked at with some red or orange
markers and a number two with also a
tape that's there
on top of the Losi building. What was
that tape that you said?
>> Uh, there's a measuring tape. It looks
like
>> Okay. Um, are you able to tell which
direction the photograph is, the photo
photographer was facing?
>> Yes.
>> And what direction is that?
>> It's facing south.
>> Um, this is a nighttime photograph,
correct?
>> Yes.
>> Um,
do you know who took this picture?
>> I do.
>> And who took the picture?
>> It was Moses Richards.
>> The same individual that you spoke about
before?
>> Yes. Um, did you ask her whether this is
a fair and accurate depiction of what
she observed that night?
>> Yes.
>> What did she say?
>> She said it was.
>> With respect to what you observed that
day, um, apart from the evidence tag,
the the yellow tag as well as the orange
or red markers, is this a fair and
accurate depiction of what you observed?
>> Yes.
>> What's different about what you observed
as far as what's on the photograph, the
previous exhibit, compared to this?
uh you can see more of the the length of
an individual. So you can see that more
there's two elbows, two knee areas, plus
also towards the far right of the photo
is also a marker where like somebody
laid a gun down.
>> Okay.
>> It's like a prone position.
>> Your pursuant to rule 1102 as well as
other authority that's been cited today,
the state offers states exhibit five
into evidence.
>> Your honor, we renew all the same
objections we made to exhibit four.
Thank you.
Given the foundation that has been laid
and that the witness has testified that
this is a fair and accurate
representation of the scene, noting uh
the tape as well as the markers in that
states exhibit 5 is admitted into
evidence and may be published.
>> State state moves to publish exhibit
five, judge. All right.
Before
turning to what you did next on that
day, taking you to se back to the
daytime of September 10th, 2025,
um did you secure the rooftop of the
Losi building that day?
>> Yes, I did.
>> And how did you do that? I put yellow
police uh crime scene tape around the
portion where so nobody else would
disturb that area.
>> And when you say that area, what areas
are you talking about?
>> I'm talking about the roof where it was
the southwest side of the roof where I
found the disturbed gravel where it
looked like somebody had been proned out
in the line of sight of the tent. Um so
right there,
>> did you secure the area um as far as any
of the any of the entrance area up onto
the rooftop with with police tape?
>> Yes. So then where that natural
guardrail is, that was the other barrier
where they were advised not to go any
any further from there other than police
officers.
>> Okay. Um if we could go back to states
exhibit number two,
if we were to zoom in on this uh
photograph, are you able to see the
police tape that you put up on the
rooftop of the Losi Center officer?
>> Yes, you would be able to.
Kimberly, if we can zoom in,
officer, I'm going to have you come down
and describe for the court where you put
that police tape up to secure that
scene. the rooftop area
on the south west corner of the rooftop.
So this is the top of the Losi building.
You got your two different grays. Uh the
southwest is towards the top center of
the picture. Um you can see some yellow
tape that spans from over here on the
far right side of the picture by these
black
uh pipes goes around a silver vent comes
back down around to the corner of that
silver to keep everybody out of that
area where that prone position was at.
>> Okay. On that photograph, are you able
to to see where you put the tape up as
far as the the access way to that roof
near the stairway?
>> So, it it was right here actually this
natural barrier where you have to climb
over the guardrail. So, this is the
elder barrier that I had set up.
>> And you put police tape on that?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Um, did you eventually leave that
area?
>> I did.
>> Do you recall about what time you left
that area?
>> Oh, I have it in my notes. Um, it would
be
when I left that area, it was almost
1:00, about 10:03, 101.
>> Okay. Before leaving, did you uh leave
the scene with anyone?
>> I did not leave the scene. Oh, did I
leave the scene to somebody? Yes.
>> Just to someone else?
>> Yes.
>> And who was that?
>> Uh, it was a county deputy, a female.
Did you provide instructions to her?
>> I did.
>> And what were those instructions?
>> I advised her not to let anybody inside
the crime scene.
>> Okay.
>> Without without being a police officer
or an investigator.
>> Okay.
>> Thank you. You can take your seat again.
Officer, upon seeing this disturbance in
the gravel, you've described what it
looked like to you.
>> Someone lying down in a prone position,
correct?
>> Yes.
>> What did you do next?
>> Um, so when I got to the top of the Losi
building during that day, I noticed the
screwdriver kept going to the edge,
found that prone position. At that
moment, I realized because it was direct
line of sight plus the disturbance in
the gravel or I could see somebody laid
down in a prone position or a sniper
position and um asked dispatch to get on
the v to then I realized that we
probably didn't have our shooter in
custody from that moment. Um I asked
dispatch to get on the camera system and
to see if anybody was on top of the Losi
building during the time of the
incident.
>> Um were you advised of anything?
>> I was. dispatch came back and advised me
that there was a male individual on top
of the roof that
was there at the time of the shooting.
>> Did they describe what his movements
were?
>> They did. They stated that he ran to the
edge, dropped down, crawled, uh got in a
prone position. Um
>> I'm going to stop you right there. Ran
to the edge. What direction and what
edge?
>> Uh ran running west and southwest of the
Losi building. So ran towards the tent
where Charlie Kirk was so they could get
a line of sight. Um and then the
individual stood up after the shooting
and ran northeast on the top of the Losi
building.
>> Okay. Um
you mentioned that this individual on
the the video dropped off
>> off the edge. Did you did you get I
haven't mentioned that.
>> What happened? What what else was
described to you?
>> Um then well at that moment so I knew
that there was possibly a shooter on on
the run. Your honor, can we just have a
continuing objection to all of the
hearsay that's being testified to here?
>> And judge, my response to that was I'm
not actually offering this for the truth
of the matter asserted at this point.
Um, simply for the effect on the hearer.
So, I'm not offering what's been
described in the video as substantive
evidence.
>> Mester, as with that clarification, any
thoughts?
>> I'll just stand on the objection. I
don't I [clears throat] don't think I
mean he's clearly offering it for the
truth because he's asking him to
describe the route of the individual and
it's based on what other people told
him. So if he wants to circle back to it
after he's put the video in, I mean, we
could do that, but right now I still
think it's an appropriate hearsay, your
honor.
>> All right. Anything further, Mr.
>> I'll submit it to the court. All
>> right. So as the magistrate, as this is
not to a jury, it's to myself as a
magistrate. I am not accepting that
statement for the truth of the matter
asserted. simply for uh what has been
stated. So uh I'm I'm specifically
making that finding as I'm receiving
this evidence and I'm not accepting it
for the truth of matter asserted only as
represented by Mr. Grunander. And with
that the objection is overruled. Mr.
Grander, you may proceed.
>> Thank you, Judge. Um, so you mentioned
um you were provided with information
that an individual was running north on
the Losi rooftop. Correct.
>> Yes.
>> What else was described to you?
>> Um, at that moment I actually there I
knew I had responding units coming into
the the scene. I advised other officers
that I needed the Losi building secured,
searched because I didn't know exactly
what way that other than he ran north.
Uh that moment I went down to the police
department which is just down the
stairwell and looked at the video
myself. And
>> where is the police department located?
>> It's in the Gunther trade building just
directly to the south of the Losi
building.
>> Okay.
>> So where I describe those outside
stairs, the building to the left of that
or south would be the Gunther Trade
building.
>> Okay. What on what level is the police
department?
>> Uh it's level three.
>> Level three. Okay. Upon arriving at the
police department, what did you do next
then? I then look at the footage to
verify for myself exactly
what expired on that moment where I
could see an individual run to the edge,
get up and then run off and then drop
off the northeast side of the building
of the Losi building.
>> Okay.
Having uh viewed that, what did you do
next?
>> Uh at that moment, I realized I had more
more crime uh a bigger crime scene that
I needed to contain and preserve for
evidence. Uh, at that moment I went and
grabbed some more crime scene tape and I
responded to the northeast side of the
building and secured an area where I saw
impressions of the shoe print inside the
grass and also up above on that
northeast side of the building. I could
see on the cement where some had scuffed
there and then dropped down to the shoe
imprint and then finish going northeast.
>> Okay. Um, if I can take the witness back
to States exhibit two.
>> Uh, you mentioned seeing an individual
drop down. Could you come down and point
that area out to the court?
>> Yes.
Okay, this is the Losi building again on
the top right center of the photo. Uh
southwest side is where the individual
was laying down prone in the line of
sight. Came behind the aquarium or
>> atrium
>> atrium came behind that on the west side
of it. came up to the north side of the
Losi building on the east on this white
square piece on the far right of the
picture. Um, and then he dropped off on
the east side of the Losi building into
the grass down here below.
>> So, the northeast corner.
>> Yes, northeast corner.
>> You mentioned you observed something on
the grass.
>> I did. I saw a shoe imprint that was
embedded pretty deep right there next to
where he dropped off.
>> And this is all footage that you
personally observed
>> on the surveillance video.
>> Yes.
>> Okay. When you got to the scene,
describe in as best detail as you can
what you saw on the grass then.
>> So, when I got to the scene, I could see
that there was a shoe imprint there.
When I looked up onto the cement from
the roof, I could see some scratching or
rub marks from the top of this of the
roof that was not there. I could see
that looked abnormal. Uh, I then decided
to put crime scene tape around the whole
area in case there was more evidence
that needed to be preserved.
>> On that, uh, exhibit number two, do you
see where you place the crime scene
tape?
>> Yes, I do.
>> And where is that? Can you describe that
to the court?
>> It's going to be on the far right in the
center of the picture. Uh, you can see
the yellow tape. I came around trees,
came up further out of pictures, some
more trees. that came down all the way
down to the back side of the LDS
Institute building where there's a
sidewalk to block everybody out of
coming up that way.
>> Okay. Did you at one point leave the
scene?
>> I did.
>> Um, did you release the scene to anyone?
>> Yes, I did.
>> And who was that?
>> Uh, there was two PAC police officers
that were standing there.
>> Okay. Were they in uniform?
>> They were.
>> Did you provide them with any
instructions?
>> I advised them not to let anybody inside
the crime scene other than law
enforcement or investigators.
>> Okay.
You can take your seat again, officer
Bagley.
>> You've talked about the disturbance in
the gravel that was observed on the low
sea building.
>> Yes.
>> Did you um walk through those that that
gra that disturbance in the gravel?
>> I did not.
>> Did you otherwise touch it in any way?
No.
>> Um, with respect to the uh shoe print
that you observed on the grass on the
northeast
lawn area below the Aloi building, did
you walk through that?
>> I did not.
>> Did you otherwise disturb that?
>> No.
[snorts]
>> Officer Beagley, what did you do next?
Uh from that moment I then released the
scene. I went down to the Fugal building
and knew that where the instant command
center was at so I could relay
information that I had found to
responding units and people in charge.
If I have just a moment, judge,
>> you