Stephen A. Smith Calls Charlie Kirk's Murder Cold-Blooded in an Interview With Brandon Tatum

[00:00] Charlie has been just a tremendous uh

[00:02] person. He's a he's a great man and it

[00:04] was sad that he lost his life, but I

[00:06] think you said something incredibly

[00:08] powerful about Unity um as it relates to

[00:10] Charlie Kurt.

[00:11] >> He was incredibly influential. I knew

[00:14] about the college campus tours, his

[00:16] willingness to engage in open and

[00:19] constructive debates. His life was

[00:21] taken, his life was taken away. And for

[00:23] what? For what? Because he may have had

[00:26] a different opinion than yours. whatever

[00:28] that opinion may be. And to me, that's

[00:31] why I felt compelled to really speak out

[00:33] about it because I think it speaks to

[00:34] the level of indecency and pure evil.

[00:38] >> Are you getting the same sentiment from

[00:39] people that you know in the in the

[00:41] private

[00:42] >> side of it? Yeah. People that's not

[00:44] public. Are they are they feeling like

[00:45] you or they are they

[00:47] >> it's cold blooded murder? That's what

[00:48] that's what happened to him.

[00:50] >> And that usurps everything. When you

[00:53] start talking as if somebody's position,

[00:57] their verbiage, their ideological tilt

[01:00] is is somehow justification for such a a

[01:04] vile, vicious act. I have I don't want

[01:07] to talk to you,

[01:10] >> Stephen. A welcome to the show, man. I

[01:13] promise

[01:14] and the faithful man and that you are,

[01:16] you actually fulfilled that that

[01:18] promise. So, I appreciate you.

[01:20] >> No, absolutely. I appreciate the invite.

[01:22] What's up?

[01:23] >> I just got a couple things I want to

[01:24] talk to you about. Um, you made a video

[01:26] that I think was incredibly powerful.

[01:27] Uh, related to Charlie Kirk, as you

[01:29] know, he was a really good friend of

[01:30] mine. You know, we worked together way

[01:32] back in 2017 when we took 400 black

[01:35] leaders to the White House. And Charlie

[01:37] has been just a tremendous uh person. I

[01:40] think people see him online and they

[01:42] they have their ideas of who he is, but

[01:44] they don't know him as a person. So,

[01:45] he's a he's a great man. And it was sad

[01:47] that he lost his life. But, I think you

[01:49] said something incredibly powerful about

[01:50] unity.

[01:52] um as it relates to Charlie Kirk. So, I

[01:54] just want to hear uh your thoughts on

[01:56] that as we've seen developments happen,

[01:58] as we've seen people come out online and

[02:00] and trash his name. We've seen him being

[02:02] celebrated. You know, what's your take

[02:04] on Charlie Kirk and and what it means to

[02:06] America?

[02:07] >> I did not know Charlie Kirk at all. I

[02:10] knew the name. I knew the face because I

[02:13] I ran across him being on television or

[02:16] on YouTube doing various interviews or

[02:18] whatever. I never really listened to

[02:20] many of his takes. I knew that he was

[02:22] incredibly influential. I knew about the

[02:26] college campus tours, his willingness to

[02:29] engage in open and constructive debates

[02:32] with whomever. Um, I knew that about

[02:34] him. And so, you know, it wasn't it it

[02:36] wasn't so much personal. It was just

[02:38] like, my god, where's the decency? You

[02:41] know, this man goes on goes to Utah,

[02:44] goes on a college campus uh to do what

[02:47] he's been doing, which is engaging in

[02:50] debate about his views and his ideology

[02:52] and comparing it to yours and asking you

[02:55] to prove him wrong and willing to have

[02:58] an open and honest discussion in a

[03:00] public forum to do so. And because of

[03:03] that, this man with his children in

[03:06] attendance, with his wife in attendance,

[03:10] gets gunned down. And you know, you

[03:12] could hear about these stories and it

[03:14] could hit you, Officer Tatum, in a very,

[03:16] very profound way to hear about things

[03:18] like that and it makes you incredibly

[03:20] sad. But in our case, we saw it. I saw

[03:24] it all over social media. And to see the

[03:29] bullet pierce his neck the way that it

[03:32] did, to see him jolt and then his body

[03:35] just collapse and you see the blood

[03:37] gushing out. Uh it was horrific in every

[03:41] sense of the word. Um it was incredibly

[03:43] sad to know that two children five years

[03:46] of age or younger were in attendance.

[03:48] His wife was in attendance and his life

[03:50] was taken. His life was taken away. And

[03:52] for what? For what? because he may have

[03:56] had a different opinion than yours,

[03:57] whatever that opinion may be. And to me,

[04:00] that's why I felt compelled to really

[04:02] speak out about it because I think it

[04:03] speaks to the level of indecency and

[04:06] pure evil that not only has been

[04:08] pervasive uh in this country and

[04:10] throughout this world, but seems to be

[04:13] stomping, not inching, but stomping

[04:16] closer and closer to our doorsteps each

[04:18] and every single day. And somehow

[04:20] someway, I think that all of us as

[04:23] God-fearing individuals have to come

[04:25] together. No matter our ethnicity, no

[04:27] matter our gender, no matter our

[04:29] ideological beliefs or whatever, we got

[04:31] to understand that we got to be in this

[04:33] together because if we let this kind of

[04:34] evil become even more pervasive and take

[04:37] over, what kind of society are we going

[04:39] to have? And that's why I felt compelled

[04:41] to say the things that I said on that

[04:43] video the other day.

[04:45] >> Yeah. And I I think it was incredibly

[04:47] impactful. Millions of people saw that

[04:49] video. It was I would I call millions of

[04:51] views viral. Um and and I appreciate you

[04:54] for that, Stephen A, because you and I,

[04:56] like we said in the past, like we may

[04:58] disagree on some things, but as men, we

[05:00] can come together and have a discussion

[05:01] and we can still end the discussion with

[05:04] not agreeing with each other, but at

[05:05] least we have enough mutual respect.

[05:07] >> You know, you you are around a lot of

[05:09] celebrities. I mean, you you're very

[05:10] popular. You're in the know. Everybody

[05:12] knows who Stephen A. Smith is. Are you

[05:14] getting the same sentiment from people

[05:16] that you know in the in the private

[05:18] >> side of it? Yeah. People that's not

[05:20] public. Are they are they feeling like

[05:22] you or they are they

[05:23] >> and that's a problem that I have.

[05:25] They're not feeling like that at all.

[05:26] You know, you know, so many people, you

[05:28] know, try to come and whisper in my ear

[05:30] about some of the things that he may

[05:32] have said uh that that tilts away from

[05:36] whatever they believe my ideological

[05:37] beliefs are. And I told him flat out, I

[05:39] want to hear it. Has nothing to do with

[05:41] that. It's cold bloodooded murder.

[05:43] That's what that's what happened to him.

[05:45] And that usurps everything. When you

[05:48] start talking as if somebody's position,

[05:51] their verbiage, their ideological tilt

[05:54] is is somehow justification for such a a

[05:58] vile, vicious act. I have I don't want

[06:01] to talk to you because I I'm not going

[06:03] to listen to that. And if I do talk to

[06:06] you, it there's no right in that

[06:08] whatsoever. There's you can never sit

[06:11] back and think that cold-blooded murder

[06:13] is a justification. Not in a civilized

[06:16] society that we're looking at. This is

[06:18] not somebody that was in a war zone. You

[06:20] weren't in Afghanistan and you know

[06:21] we're at war with them or is Israel and

[06:24] Hamas and a murder has happened or

[06:26] whatever. No, that's not what we're

[06:27] talking about here. We're talking about

[06:29] a man that was on a college campus

[06:31] sitting there talking to people and was

[06:33] gunned down in front of all of us. I

[06:36] mean, we who hasn't seen that video

[06:38] right now? And I and I'll tell you

[06:39] something and I'll share with you, man,

[06:41] because you know my my daughters, it

[06:44] really hit home with me when when they

[06:46] they spoke to me the other day. They

[06:47] said, "Daddy, we'd we'd rather be broke.

[06:50] We'd rather be broke knowing that you're

[06:54] safe and sound every day than, you know,

[06:57] rich and worried about whether or not

[07:00] something like that could happen to you,

[07:01] too." And it it it it just saddened the

[07:04] living hell out of me to hear something

[07:06] like that. And it gives us all cause to

[07:09] pause because this wasn't a politician.

[07:11] Not that that it would be justified with

[07:12] them either, but it wasn't a politician

[07:14] that this happened. This was a pundit.

[07:16] Th this was this was an activist. And of

[07:20] course, you're going to hear people and

[07:21] you know on the on the white side,

[07:23] people are bringing up what happened to

[07:25] Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., what

[07:27] happened to Amedga Evers in the 60s,

[07:29] what happened to a Malcolm X, and

[07:30] they're saying that to us this was

[07:33] similar. That's what their position is.

[07:34] And fine, you can do that. But in the

[07:36] end, what it comes down to is that this

[07:39] is not something that should ever be

[07:41] excused. It should be universally

[07:44] condemned. And for us to be sitting here

[07:46] right now, Officer Tatum, talking. I've

[07:48] had you on my show. That's why I owed it

[07:50] to you to come on your show. I can't I

[07:51] asked you to come on twice and you

[07:53] immediately said yes. And I really,

[07:54] really appreciate that. I'm not a

[07:56] Republican. I'm not a conservative, but

[07:57] I'm not a staunch liberal either. I'm

[07:59] basically a centrist who leans left on

[08:01] certain issues and right on others. And

[08:03] that's why I'm a centrist. But it's

[08:05] never bothered me. It's never once

[08:07] bothered me to hear other people's

[08:10] points of views. As long as they give me

[08:12] an opportunity to address its

[08:14] righteousness or how wrong it may be,

[08:16] I'm cool with it. And that should be

[08:18] that. That's not what's going on in this

[08:20] world today. It seems to me like if you

[08:22] don't agree with folks, you're a racist,

[08:25] you're a no good bastard, uh you don't

[08:27] care about anybody but yourself, you're

[08:29] this, you're that, or whatever. And

[08:31] people really really are wishing harm on

[08:34] other people just because you have a

[08:36] different point of view. That's a very

[08:39] dangerous thing to embrace as a society.

[08:43] And there's nowhere to go but down if we

[08:45] continue to allow and condone such

[08:47] heinous acts and such kind that those

[08:49] kind of thoughts and that kind of

[08:50] behavior.

[08:52] Stephen A, if if the world's reversed

[08:55] and there was a brother that got sniped

[08:58] u like Charlie did at an event where

[09:00] he's peacefully um making his voice

[09:03] heard,

[09:05] >> do you think the reaction from some of

[09:06] the people that disregard in part

[09:10] Charlie's death? Do you think those same

[09:12] people would feel the same way or do you

[09:14] think that it would be a biased reaction

[09:16] because it's a a person that looked like

[09:18] me or

[09:19] >> they would say it's racist? They would

[09:20] say they would say it's racist. That's

[09:22] that's what they would say. Um and you

[09:25] know what? Who's to say whether it would

[09:27] or would not be from the particular or

[09:29] the specific perpetrator. But from a

[09:32] societal perspective, there are people

[09:34] who are racist in this world. But there

[09:35] are also people who are not racist. They

[09:37] just don't like your ass. There are

[09:39] people that are not racist. They just

[09:41] don't like you. They don't like how you

[09:43] roll. They don't like how you I'm not

[09:44] talking about you personally or me

[09:45] personally. I'm just talking the

[09:46] generalities. You know, there are people

[09:48] who are just disliked. And I think that

[09:50] a lot of times when you know I wish that

[09:52] when our politician speaks or even to a

[09:54] lesser degree when pundits and

[09:56] commentators are speaking you make stuff

[09:58] very very clear like for example I you

[10:00] know to me everything is a mosaic and

[10:03] you understand I I truly live by that

[10:05] live and let live mentality but what I

[10:08] try to in to really really embed in

[10:10] people's brains because we live in a

[10:11] society right now man where you got cast

[10:14] you know if you're a member of the LGBTQ

[10:16] community if you are you know a a

[10:19] right-winger, if you're this or you're

[10:20] that, you're automatically labeled. And

[10:23] I'm going like this. Wait a minute. All

[10:24] of us deserve the same civil liberties

[10:26] and the same civil rights. But don't

[10:28] mistake that to believe that you have a

[10:30] right to legislate what's in people's

[10:32] hearts and they got to like everything

[10:34] that they have to accept. We got to grow

[10:36] the hell up, bro. You came out of the

[10:39] womb a black man. I came out of the womb

[10:40] a black man. You know what that means?

[10:42] Most of the time we wait, we grew up

[10:43] like we didn't think we were liked. We

[10:45] damn sure didn't feel loved. But I'm

[10:47] talking about outsiders outside of our

[10:48] inner circle and stuff like that. Our

[10:50] family, our friends, our loved ones. We

[10:52] didn't feel like society was going to

[10:53] embrace us and give us a fair shake or

[10:56] whatever. Well, you know what? Those are

[10:57] the obstacles that you got to deal with.

[10:59] Wake up and deal with them. That's not a

[11:00] license to go out and murder people.

[11:02] It's not a license to go out and try to

[11:04] do physical harm to people. But in our

[11:07] society today, you got people that

[11:09] literally want to do that and they want

[11:11] to get away and they want to operate

[11:13] with impunity. That's not what a lawful

[11:16] society is supposed to be like. And we

[11:18] have to speak from a general perspective

[11:21] about what's in the best interest of the

[11:23] nation, what's in the best interest of

[11:25] the country. So as we're walking the

[11:27] streets, we're lending ourselves towards

[11:29] a safer and more civil society. And we

[11:33] don't embrace in civility. That's what

[11:36] we have to make sure that we're doing.

[11:38] And not enough are doing that. But we

[11:40] better get our act together because evil

[11:42] is very very prevalent in this world.

[11:44] And you got some people whose definition

[11:45] of happiness is bringing you right down

[11:48] to their level of misery. And you got to

[11:50] make sure you fend that off with

[11:52] everything you have. And all of us got

[11:54] to do it together cuz we can't do it

[11:56] alone. Bro,

[11:57] >> I agree with you a thousand%. Uh, I was

[12:00] going to ask you about the concept of

[12:02] racism to you because I know a lot of

[12:06] brothers

[12:07] that feel like

[12:10] every white person or most white people

[12:12] are racist and you can't get ahead in

[12:14] society because of the color of your

[12:15] skin. But, but Stephen A, you've been

[12:17] very successful and and I know that

[12:19] there probably been challenges. So

[12:21] >> generally speaking,

[12:23] >> do you believe that racism

[12:26] and and and pe white people's hatred

[12:28] towards black people will prevent a

[12:31] young man in America today from

[12:33] accomplishing and building the dreams

[12:36] that they have?

[12:37] >> I think that racism and obstruction to

[12:40] black success in America.

[12:41] >> I think it could, but not for the

[12:43] typical reasons that people would

[12:45] articulate to somebody like you or other

[12:47] black conservatives in this country. I

[12:49] think it could get in the way of those

[12:51] things, Officer Tatum, because it's not

[12:54] just about what the perpetrator is

[12:56] throwing at you. It's about what you're

[12:58] receiving and how you react accordingly.

[13:02] The level of composure that you would

[13:04] have when viciousness and vitriol or

[13:07] racism and stuff like that is thrown in

[13:09] your direction might be different than

[13:13] somebody else's. I was very blessed and

[13:16] fortunate from the standpoint that I had

[13:18] parents who never allowed me to use

[13:21] racism as an excuse. But I was also

[13:24] loved by a grandmother named Carmen

[13:29] Brady

[13:30] who was white. My mother's mother was

[13:33] white. And nobody taught me more about

[13:37] racism than her. She was a white woman

[13:41] living in St. Thomas Virgin Islands,

[13:44] married to a black man who was my

[13:46] grandfather and she taught me more about

[13:49] racism than my mother and father. She

[13:51] said, "Here's what it looks like. Here's

[13:53] what it is." And she said to me, "Racism

[13:56] by and large evolves around the issue of

[14:00] entitlement. somebody believing they

[14:03] deserve what you have or more than what

[14:06] you have, even if it's at your expense

[14:10] just because of their pigmentation,

[14:12] their hue, and their racial identity.

[14:15] They believe that they are entitled and

[14:18] you are not. They believe that they are

[14:20] superior to you and you are inferior to

[14:24] them. Does that exist in our country?

[14:26] You're damn right it does. Make no

[14:28] mistake about it. but not as prevalent

[14:31] as some people in the black community

[14:34] try to make it out to be. And what I'm

[14:36] saying is is that you got some cats,

[14:38] Officer Tatum, right? And racism is

[14:41] very, very legit. And in this particular

[14:44] instance, that's fine. But then you got

[14:46] others, every damn thing is racism

[14:49] because it escapes the accountability

[14:51] that should fall on their shoulders for

[14:54] what they did or did not do. And as a

[14:57] result, there were ramifications that

[14:58] came from it. that they don't want to

[15:00] accept. And if we're being honest about

[15:02] it, as black men, we know the difference

[15:04] between the two. We know somebody who's

[15:07] experienced racism, vitriol, violence,

[15:10] and all of this other stuff, and it's

[15:12] been an impediment to their success to

[15:13] some degree. And then somebody who's

[15:15] quick to use it as an excuse for every

[15:17] damn thing that goes wrong in their life

[15:19] because they don't want to accept

[15:20] accountability for not doing what the

[15:22] hell they were supposed to do. For

[15:23] whatever reason, they didn't want to do

[15:25] it. We know the difference. And as a

[15:27] result of that, that's why, you know,

[15:29] I've always people think I'm a I'm a

[15:31] conservative because I get along with

[15:33] black conservatives. Nobody has ever

[15:35] asked me why, Officer Tatum, why I

[15:37] always get along with black

[15:38] conservatives. It's because I believe

[15:41] y'all have been victimized for decades.

[15:44] Now, I might be I might have Democratic

[15:46] viewpoints. I might I might be somebody

[15:49] who like I consider myself fiscally

[15:51] conservative and socially liberal, but

[15:54] when you or anybody else come to me and

[15:56] you say, "Yo, Stephen A, what about

[15:58] this? What about this?" Come on, man. It

[16:00] ain't no truth to that. Here's what

[16:01] really happened, etc. I'm listening

[16:03] because if you're coming to me with

[16:05] facts, why would I ignore that? I'm not

[16:07] going to let my facts be usurped by

[16:10] emotion. Because emotion is how the

[16:13] Democratic Party has gotten us to the

[16:15] place that they've gotten us where

[16:16] they've confiscated or they've had about

[16:19] 80 plus% of our vote since the mid60s

[16:22] with Lyndon B. Johnson and civil rights

[16:24] legislation. At some point in time, I

[16:26] get to look at you and say, I understand

[16:28] what happened back then. I understand

[16:29] that those laws that you implemented and

[16:31] put into place facilitated us having

[16:33] more access to capital, etc., etc., But

[16:36] damn, I'm supposed to hold on to that

[16:38] 50, 60 years later and ignore what you

[16:40] did with the crime bill. Ignore what

[16:42] you're doing with education. Ignore what

[16:44] you're doing with the war on poverty.

[16:45] Ignore what you're doing with the

[16:47] economy and whether or not it's

[16:48] facilitating opportunities for black

[16:50] people in this country. I'm supposed to

[16:52] ignore all of that because of what you

[16:54] did in the 60s. No, I'm not doing that.

[16:56] I'm not doing that. And I applaud people

[16:58] like yourself and others, even when I

[17:00] disagree with you, for doing the same.

[17:03] Because what you're saying is we ain't

[17:04] falling for the okey do. Convince us.

[17:07] Show us we wrong. And I respect that. I

[17:10] like that. And that's why I don't have a

[17:12] problem with conservatives the way a lot

[17:15] of black folks in America have a problem

[17:17] with because I'm not going to look at

[17:19] the Democratic party and let them

[17:20] convince me that y'all are the enemy

[17:23] just because your ideology is different

[17:25] than theirs. They care so much about us.

[17:28] They've got the grand plan for all of us

[17:30] and you don't need to look no further.

[17:32] By doing that, you empower them and you

[17:36] disenfranchise yourself because they

[17:37] know they got your vote. So, they don't

[17:39] have to work for it. And the other side

[17:41] knows there's no way in hell they'll get

[17:42] your vote. So, they don't do anything

[17:44] for you. What you got to do is make sure

[17:47] you stand right in the middle and you

[17:48] say, "Convince me, sell me. I want to

[17:52] see what you got to say." And keep an

[17:54] open mind. To me, that's the way to go.

[17:58] >> Why Why is your boy DL Hugley? I don't

[18:01] know how f are you are you good friends

[18:02] with him or

[18:03] >> No, I mean we we know each other. We

[18:04] we've spoken to each other on several

[18:06] occasions over the years. Um he seems

[18:09] pretty he seems pretty cool. Obviously

[18:11] he's gotten a bit more you know you know

[18:14] assertive in his in in his words and

[18:16] what he has to say about politics and

[18:18] stuff like that. But I think that you

[18:20] know I would tell you what I do know

[18:22] about DL Hugley is that his heart's in

[18:24] the right place and and he's a good

[18:26] brother who really really cares. But

[18:28] like a lot of other folks, he does find

[18:31] himself at times getting, you know, you

[18:34] know, very ticked off by a lot of the

[18:37] things he sees and that's what comes

[18:38] across. And I think sometimes it's

[18:41] unfortunate, but I got a lot of love and

[18:42] I got a lot of respect for him.

[18:45] >> Good. I I've noticed this, Stephen A, is

[18:47] when you meet people

[18:48] >> in person,

[18:49] >> it seems to be less of a or you talk to

[18:52] people, it seems to be less of a

[18:53] vitriolic relationship. Like right now I

[18:56] can't stand deal Huggy but I bet you

[18:58] million dollars if me and him sat down

[19:01] and had a cigar or you know was hanging

[19:03] out that I guarantee you we probably

[19:05] agree on more things than we disagree on

[19:07] publicly. And not because somebody got

[19:09] to be fake. It's because I think that

[19:12] sometimes he hear me and it's

[19:14] interpreted different than what I'm

[19:16] saying. And and maybe in part I feel the

[19:18] same about him. I say him say I hear him

[19:20] say something on the on the record and

[19:22] I'm like what? That's the stupidest

[19:24] thing. And then now we arguing. But if

[19:26] we were to talk and have a nuanced

[19:28] conversation, I don't think we'll agree

[19:30] on most things. But I do think we agree

[19:31] on more things than than we apparently

[19:33] do now.

[19:34] >> But but I think the thing that you got

[19:35] to notice about yourself and and and

[19:37] major major respect to you for this is

[19:39] that if you disagree with somebody,

[19:42] you'll say so.

[19:44] But it doesn't mean you don't want to

[19:45] talk to them. The same thing with me.

[19:48] You know, listen, the fact is is that

[19:49] I'm new to this, man. I've been

[19:51] entrenched in sports all my life and I'm

[19:53] going to stay here too. It's just that I

[19:55] don't mind speaking on issues that

[19:57] extend beyond, you know, the the

[19:59] parameters of the sports world. But in

[20:01] the same breath, it could be you. It I

[20:04] it could be a Ben Shapiro. It could be a

[20:06] Candace Owens. It could be a Megan

[20:08] Kelly. It could be all of these folks.

[20:09] You know, I know Sean Henry, he and I

[20:11] have been friends for over 20 years. I

[20:12] know Mark Levin, he and I have been

[20:14] friends for at least 20 years, etc. I

[20:16] don't agree with them a lot of times and

[20:18] stuff like that, but you never see me

[20:20] going at them like that because I know

[20:22] them. And the conversations that we

[20:25] have, it's like, wait a minute, there

[20:27] are times it would shock people if you

[20:30] knew what Sean Hannity wanted to say and

[20:34] then he had a conversation with me and

[20:35] all of a sudden he didn't say it because

[20:37] he didn't see it. He didn't see it the

[20:40] way that I saw it. He didn't see it the

[20:42] way some black people feel. He I don't

[20:44] expect somebody white to embrace this

[20:49] saying, Officer Tatum, when I say when a

[20:52] white folk when white folks catch a

[20:54] cold, black folks catch pneumonia, it's

[20:56] always worse for us. I don't give a damn

[20:58] what it is. The society is rigged in a

[21:01] way where no matter what hell what damn

[21:03] level of suffering the white community

[21:06] suffers from, it's going to be worse for

[21:08] us. That's how I've always felt. But it

[21:11] doesn't mean that because I'm pointing

[21:13] at something systemically that every

[21:15] white person I run across ain't worth a

[21:17] damn. I don't believe that because we

[21:19] see white people victimized by this

[21:22] white system, too. You know, the system

[21:24] itself forgets about its own most of the

[21:27] time, just like they forget about black

[21:29] people. So, I understand that. And when

[21:31] you look at it from that standpoint,

[21:33] you're then able to have a discussion

[21:34] because you might discover that there

[21:36] are things that are relatable. And as it

[21:38] pertains to two black folks talking to

[21:39] one another like you and DL Hugley to

[21:41] use this as an example. DL is an

[21:44] intelligent brother. He is not stupid.

[21:46] But what he is is passionate. And what

[21:49] we've seen over the years is passion get

[21:52] in the way of maybe logic and sometimes

[21:55] facts because there's always a deeper

[21:57] layer to touch on. But when you talk to

[22:00] people face to face, it goes a long way

[22:03] because you're touching one another

[22:05] literally and figuratively, and you're

[22:07] more apt to try to find sense and common

[22:10] ground and veile and potentially

[22:13] violence. And I think that's what it's

[22:15] all about.

[22:16] >> I agree a thousand%, Stephen A. And I

[22:18] It's It's so funny, man. I I remember

[22:20] back in the day, I thought me and you

[22:21] would never agree on stuff,

[22:23] like keep it real, we probably agree on

[22:26] most things. I agree. nuance things here

[22:28] and there. So, I know we running out of

[22:30] time, but the last

[22:31] >> I got some time. I got a few minutes. Go

[22:33] ahead, man. Ask Ask what you want. I'm

[22:35] here.

[22:35] >> Last question I want to ask you, Stephen

[22:37] A, is like if you had to vote today, and

[22:39] I mean, keep it real. I don't want to

[22:41] get you in trouble, but keep it real.

[22:42] >> If you had to vote today, right, which

[22:46] side do you think you'll fall on given

[22:48] the candidates that you see and presume

[22:50] candidates that may run, right? You

[22:51] know, the Gavin Newsome may run, right?

[22:53] You got some people who just may run on

[22:55] that side and then you on our side we

[22:58] definitely have JD Vance that's going to

[22:59] run. We may have Sanis Florida and we

[23:03] may have some other people that run. But

[23:05] what you know on the table right now

[23:07] what people are saying the way they act

[23:08] the policy positions the this person was

[23:11] in office. This side was in office.

[23:13] Where do you think you'll land

[23:14] politically if the election was held in

[23:16] two weeks?

[23:17] >> I I would land in a position I've never

[23:18] been in in my adult life. I don't think

[23:20] I would vote. I couldn't vote for Trump.

[23:22] I couldn't vote for Trump. Uh because I

[23:25] don't and I've said this to Sean on many

[23:27] many occasions. I I can't stand the way

[23:29] he behaves. It really really bothers me.

[23:31] >> No, not Trump. I'm saying I'm saying

[23:32] this new this new this new happening,

[23:35] right? Cuz Trump ain't can't run again.

[23:36] >> Got you. Understand. I understand. I I

[23:38] Let me say this to you. The number one

[23:39] person I will vote for

[23:40] >> is Marco Rubio. I'm not down with I'm

[23:43] not down with Vance. I don't I don't

[23:45] trust Vance. I think that when I see

[23:48] Vance and I think about various white

[23:52] nationalists out there and some of the

[23:53] things that they spew, I don't trust it.

[23:55] It makes me uncomfortable. I see not one

[23:58] single Democrat that has a national

[24:00] voice that I would support. Now, the

[24:02] number one candidate I would support is

[24:05] Wes Moore, the governor of Maryland, who

[24:07] swears he's not running. That's the

[24:08] number one candidate I would support

[24:11] because I trust his soul and that it's

[24:13] in the right place. I know he's smart. I

[24:15] know he's knowledgeable. I know him

[24:16] personally. I've gotten to know him over

[24:17] the last couple of years. Um, I think

[24:20] he's smart as a whip. I think he's doing

[24:22] good things in Maryland. No governor's

[24:23] perfect. We get all of that. But I trust

[24:26] that his soul is in the right place. And

[24:27] the one thing that I want to emphasize

[24:29] to you about this, Officer Tatum, is

[24:31] that I'm never ever ever supporting

[24:33] anybody that doesn't show me not just a

[24:36] willingness, but an eagerness to work

[24:38] across the aisle. We got to stop that.

[24:41] When we send you up to Capitol Hill,

[24:43] it's your job to go up there and work

[24:45] with whoever the hell is there. It ain't

[24:47] to sit up there and and and to be a

[24:49] representative and your MO is to decry

[24:52] and vilify everything the other side

[24:55] does. That ain't getting it done. That's

[24:57] why I'm not a fan of what I see AOC

[24:59] doing. It's why I'm not a fan of what I

[25:00] see Jasmine Crockett and all the noise

[25:02] that she's been making over social media

[25:04] talking about the president like that

[25:06] and some of the Republicans like that.

[25:07] It's counterproductive. and you're not

[25:10] there representing the people of your

[25:12] district by acting like that. It's your

[25:14] job to figure out a way to finagle what

[25:16] you can out of the present

[25:18] administration to get as much as you can

[25:20] while they're in office, while still

[25:21] being a member of your party and trying

[25:23] to get stuff done on their behalf.

[25:25] That's your job. And so I don't like

[25:27] what I'm seeing. I look at Governor

[25:29] Moore and I look at Governor Josh

[25:31] Shapiro in Pennsylvania. I like both of

[25:34] them. on the on the right. I would not

[25:37] hesitate to vote for Mar for Marco

[25:39] Rubio. I think Marco Rubio um is is big

[25:42] time. I think that he is a guy that has

[25:45] the credentials. He was a former

[25:46] senator. He is now a secretary of state

[25:49] and a national security adviser,

[25:50] arguably the most powerful person in the

[25:52] country outside of the president. And I

[25:55] think that what you see when you see

[25:56] some of these guys acting up, they they

[25:58] they can't say what they want to say

[26:01] because they don't want to alienate the

[26:03] president because he can be petty and

[26:05] he'll turn against you and we all know

[26:07] this unless you for over him and praise

[26:09] him at every turn, which is what has

[26:11] turned me off about the Republicans this

[26:13] go round. But in the same breath, I

[26:16] don't think Marco Rubio is like that. I

[26:17] don't think he'll require that. And I

[26:19] think he has the full capability to be

[26:22] an adult in the room representing all of

[26:25] America, just like I think about

[26:27] Governor Wesmore or Governor Josh

[26:29] Shapiro. I'm not down with Gavin Newsome

[26:32] because my issue with Gavin Newsome is

[26:34] like, listen, you look great in those

[26:35] blue suits. You're very articulate, very

[26:37] smart, very quickwitted. Um, I love how

[26:40] you've been trolling Trump because I

[26:41] thought that was necessary, you know, in

[26:43] order to compete with Trump. But I can't

[26:45] ignore the fact that you're number one

[26:46] in unemployment, number one in

[26:47] homelessness and poverty and all of this

[26:49] other stuff and the price of

[26:51] affordability issues in California. I

[26:53] can't ignore all of that. I can't ignore

[26:55] the fact that there's no way I can see

[26:57] you winning an election with some of the

[26:59] things that have been happening in the

[27:00] state of California. So the answer to

[27:02] your question is Governor Moore,

[27:04] Governor Shapiro in Maryland and

[27:06] Pennsylvania respectively. And on the

[27:08] right side, definitely Marco Rubio ahead

[27:12] of JD Vance.

[27:16] >> Perfect, man. I appreciate you coming

[27:18] on, Stephen. A man, we have to one day

[27:20] we'll have to get together in person.

[27:22] Yeah.

[27:22] >> And uh chop it up, maybe go to dinner or

[27:24] something, but I appreciate you on the

[27:26] show, man. I always appreciate your

[27:27] commentary. I love the fact that we can,

[27:30] you know, have a conversation and be

[27:31] civil. And I think that's the best, you

[27:33] know, part moving forward. So, I

[27:35] appreciate that. You be blessed, man.

[27:37] and enjoy that fight.

[27:38] >> No doubt. I'm here anytime you need me,

[27:39] bro. Feel free to holler. Thanks a lot.

[27:42] [Music]