Charlie Kirk on Bitcoin Reserve, National Debt Crisis, and Why the US Dollar is Losing Power

[00:00] What are your thoughts on Bitcoin?

[00:01] I'm a big fan of Bitcoin.

[00:02] Should the US do a Bitcoin reserve?

[00:04] Absolutely. Yes. Yes. The the United

[00:05] States should should have a strategic

[00:07] Bitcoin reserve.

[00:07] And who should pay for the Bitcoin

[00:08] reserve?

[00:09] That's a good question. Um hopefully

[00:11] some of the tariff money could

[00:13] potentially do that. The reason why I

[00:14] think we should have a strategic Bitcoin

[00:15] reserve. I know you guys had Michael

[00:17] Sailor on your show and I I think he's

[00:18] on to something. There is something

[00:20] called like the mass adoption theory

[00:22] which is over a period of time like the

[00:24] English language US dollar things just

[00:26] catch on and they're just kind of

[00:28] volitional and there's no stopping it. I

[00:30] think Bitcoin is that. You got to watch

[00:32] out though. Quantum computing could

[00:34] potentially crack cryptography.

[00:36] But if they do that then they're also

[00:37] cracking bank accounts

[00:38] right and stock trading.

[00:40] Yeah. So quantum is the only asterct on

[00:42] all this. But I think Sailor's on to

[00:44] something very profound, which is that

[00:46] because Bitcoin is a scarce,

[00:48] legitimately scarce resource that is

[00:51] probably going to go nowhere but up. So

[00:52] Sailor makes a very provocative argument

[00:54] that Bitcoin could go up 10x over the

[00:56] next 10 years or something like that,

[00:57] which therefore if we start a Bitcoin

[00:59] strategic reserve, it could like pay for

[01:01] the national debt and like basically

[01:04] cover our losses on the deficit. But I

[01:06] think that we should I think the United

[01:07] States government should be invested in

[01:09] crypto without a doubt. I tend to agree

[01:10] with Michael Sailor that it's more

[01:12] likely to go to a million than zero.

[01:14] Yes, I think that's right. And but by

[01:16] the way, so you have a problem of the

[01:17] world's richest people. They don't know

[01:18] where to put their money. So there's

[01:20] only so many pen houses in London and

[01:22] Paris that they could buy. There's only

[01:23] so many ranches in Wyoming that they

[01:25] could buy. And so they we had this

[01:26] problem. So you create all this money,

[01:28] the money goes upwards to wealth

[01:30] inequality point to your earlier point.

[01:32] The question is then well what do rich

[01:33] people do with money? There's only so

[01:34] many equities they can buy. There's only

[01:36] so many shares in Nvidia and Apple and

[01:37] Microsoft they could justify. Well,

[01:40] money needs to find a home and it's

[01:42] found a home in Bitcoin. And so once it

[01:44] has mass adoption and the literally the

[01:46] wealthiest families on the planet are

[01:47] starting to park serious monies in

[01:49] Bitcoin and because it's scarce, it's

[01:52] easy to transfer and it's just a winner.

[01:54] Sometimes there's a mass adoption and it

[01:56] just rises to the surface and I think I

[01:58] think Bitcoin is that. And

[02:00] speaking of the national debt, at what

[02:01] point do you think it's going to become

[02:02] a major problem?

[02:03] I think it already is. I think it

[02:05] already is.

[02:06] Do you see any solvable way that we

[02:09] could address this? Because it seems as

[02:10] though if Trump's big, beautiful bill

[02:13] passes, it's just going to get two

[02:14] trillion higher.

[02:16] Yeah. So, that's over 10 years. So, I do

[02:18] find issue with some of those estimates.

[02:20] I don't want to get too deep into that.

[02:21] That's kind of a wonky we'll lose the

[02:23] audience on CBO estimates, um,

[02:25] Congressional Budget Office estimates,

[02:27] right?

[02:27] I think we need to cut a lot more

[02:29] spending. I wish more Republicans wanted

[02:30] to agree. I know Donald Trump agrees.

[02:31] He's just very frustrated with some of

[02:33] the Republicans on Capitol Hill that

[02:35] don't want to cut it. So, here's the

[02:36] worst thing we could do, though. The

[02:37] worst thing we could do out of all this

[02:39] the options is not grow.

[02:42] So, the worst of all the options is not

[02:44] grow. So, when you have a big debt,

[02:47] that's bad. Not growing with a big debt

[02:49] is catastrophic. Growing with a big debt

[02:53] is somewhat manageable. Growing with

[02:56] cutting your debt is awesome. That that

[02:57] would be the best possible scenario. So

[02:59] the calculus is okay, we have a big

[03:01] debt. Let's at least try to have the

[03:04] debt outpace two things. The rate of the

[03:07] increase of the debt to GDP ratio and

[03:09] the rate of inflation. If GDP can grow

[03:12] faster than inflation and grow faster

[03:15] than the rate of the the debt to GDP

[03:18] ratio, then we're in a manageable place.

[03:20] So that's what the premise of a lot of

[03:22] these tax cuts of the bill is, right? No

[03:24] tax on tips, no tax on overtime, right?

[03:27] the depreciation, the extension of the

[03:29] Trump tax cuts, all of which I support

[03:31] because you need a progrowth agenda

[03:33] because when you're a deter nation and

[03:34] you have no growth, then you're going to

[03:36] be in a really bad spot.

[03:37] What happened to Doge? It just seemed

[03:39] like

[03:39] I don't think it's done. I think but

[03:40] first of all, I think Elon did a lot of

[03:42] good work. I really did. First of all, I

[03:43] think Elon's greatest contribution was a

[03:45] philosophical one. I think Elon made us

[03:48] all realize how much waste there is and

[03:50] how much we really need to kind of get

[03:52] into the details of how much the

[03:54] government is inefficient from a

[03:56] technological standpoint, from a

[03:59] efficiency standpoint. So, I don't think

[04:01] it's over by any means. I think Doge is

[04:03] a cultural mindset that is going to be

[04:05] in the hopefully around the Republican

[04:07] party for years to come.

[04:08] It just seemed like Congress didn't

[04:10] really have that big of an incentive to

[04:12] do anything about it. What was most

[04:13] surprising, Elon said that he just

[04:15] wanted people to code and write in a

[04:18] description of where the money went

[04:20] because right now you could basically

[04:21] just leave it blank, send money, and not

[04:24] write what the purpose of the money is

[04:26] for. And he just said, "Just put

[04:27] something in there."

[04:29] And he said he was up against just a

[04:31] wall that they didn't even mandate that.

[04:34] It's a very complicated. So yeah, that

[04:36] that's right. And so there is

[04:38] common sense to just type type what it's

[04:40] for. There is so much waste in the

[04:42] federal government and my hope is that

[04:44] we can start to rain it in in the next,

[04:46] you know, couple of months and couple of

[04:47] years. It's a beast though, guys. I

[04:49] mean, this is a it is a wild monster

[04:52] that is hard to rein in. And I know that

[04:54] sounds like cope and an excuse, but you

[04:56] have an entrenched permanent bureaucracy

[04:58] of millions of people. And then you have

[05:00] judges that are preventing literally the

[05:02] Trump administration from doing some of

[05:03] this stuff. You have federal judges that

[05:05] are coming in and preventing, you know,

[05:07] President Donald Trump from being like,

[05:08] "Nope, I want to lay off these workers.

[05:10] Nope, I want to cut this aid. Nope, I

[05:11] want to cut this, which of course is

[05:13] unconstitutional. So, yes, I mean like

[05:15] it would be nice. Here's the goal. The

[05:17] goal would be we need to blockchain the

[05:19] entire federal government. Put the

[05:20] entire federal government on blockchain.

[05:22] Then number two, every dime of federal

[05:24] spending online in real time. We should

[05:26] know what everybody is spending in real

[05:28] time. No different than a transparent

[05:30] federal database.

[05:30] Could that be a national security risk

[05:32] in any way? There are certain things you

[05:34] could blackbox for sure. But like I

[05:35] think that people deserve to know on a

[05:37] day-by-day, month-by-month basis. Like

[05:39] what is the Department of Interior

[05:40] spending? Like are they going what is

[05:42] the Department of the Veterans Affairs

[05:44] spending money on? We should know. Like

[05:45] are they buying $50 hammers? Like are

[05:48] they buying $200 bandages? Like is I

[05:52] think we it's our money. We This is the

[05:53] whole problem I have with this whole

[05:54] thing. This is our money. It is you

[05:57] watching money. We are the ones that

[05:59] earn the money. It is not the

[06:00] government's money. They we are the

[06:02] sovereign. We create the government. We

[06:05] earn the money and then the government

[06:07] extract it from us with our consent,

[06:08] right? Because we vote, we have

[06:09] elections, what? So, we have a right to

[06:11] know where that money goes. It doesn't

[06:13] magically become the government's money.

[06:14] I guess part of the the problem is that

[06:16] there's no penalty for overspending.

[06:17] It's like a credit card. The limit just

[06:19] keeps getting higher and higher and

[06:20] higher. So, why is that?

[06:22] No, it's it's actually even worse than

[06:23] that. There's there's an incentive to

[06:25] keep spending more. In fact, the

[06:27] incentive in Washington DC is that you

[06:29] have one wing that wants to spend money

[06:31] on more war, which is the Republican

[06:33] party wararmongering caucus, which I'm

[06:35] at war with. And then you have a whole

[06:36] another thing, which is the welfare

[06:37] caucus. So, you have the warfare welfare

[06:39] caucuses. So, the warfare guys want to

[06:41] go invade the world. The welfare caucus

[06:43] wants to go put the entire world on

[06:45] welfare. What can they both agree on?

[06:47] We'll authorize your warfare. If you

[06:49] authorize our war welfare, we all spend

[06:51] more money and we get our pet projects

[06:53] done. And then we're going to go invade

[06:55] the world. And they're like, "Oh." So

[06:56] the war the welfare people say, "Don't

[06:58] invade the world, but if you invade the

[06:59] world, can we invite the world?" So they

[07:01] say, "It's okay if you go invade the

[07:02] country, but then we can have a couple

[07:03] million more people into the country."

[07:04] And then the warfare people are like,

[07:06] "Ah, we don't like that. We'll do that."

[07:07] But the welfare people, but then we got

[07:08] to put them on welfare. And literally,

[07:10] this is the uniarty bipartisan agreement

[07:12] last 30 years. Every major public policy

[07:14] budgetary debate comes down to an

[07:16] agreement between the warfare and the

[07:17] welfare wing of the two parties.

[07:20] So no,

[07:21] there's no there's no way to

[07:23] first of all, I would not No. No. I

[07:24] actually I I

[07:25] that's

[07:26] Yes, that's very true.

[07:27] The way you describe it, I agree with

[07:28] you completely. But that

[07:29] the reason I say no, no, no, is that I

[07:32] am not a cynic. I'm like a super

[07:34] optimist. I've never been more

[07:36] optimistic on the country. Let me tell

[07:37] you why. I saw insane dumerism like a

[07:40] year ago. They're never going to let

[07:42] Trump win. They're going to try to take

[07:43] him out. And like I saw dumerism die.

[07:47] And so I think what Trump's one of his

[07:49] greatest contributions is he's really

[07:51] pushed the art of the possible. like

[07:52] actually no you can do dramatic things

[07:54] you can change stuff but yes to your

[07:56] answer it's going to be very big it is

[07:58] climbing a major mountain do you worry

[08:01] about the US dollar

[08:02] of course absolutely

[08:04] and what do you think is the most likely

[08:05] outcome because I I would like to think

[08:07] positively but at the same time I think

[08:09] realistically it's just going to be

[08:11] as one of my friends and heroes Tony

[08:12] Robbins would say I don't tell you to go

[08:14] to your garden and say there's no weeds

[08:16] there's no weeds there's no weeds I tell

[08:17] you to spot the weeds and pull them out

[08:19] so I'm not like delusional I'm an

[08:21] optimist I try to find the best case

[08:23] story of how things can be told then

[08:26] have us have human agency and action to

[08:29] actually do it. So with the US dollar

[08:30] look the US dollar as the world reserve

[08:32] currency has gone down dramatically in

[08:34] the last 20 years. President Donald

[08:36] Trump is focused on breaking up bricks.

[08:39] So bricks is Brazil, Russia, India,

[08:42] China and South Africa. South Africa is

[08:44] the DEI pick. Why South Africa is

[08:46] considered to be some sort of world

[08:47] that's a that's a joke for the record.

[08:49] Some sort of like world currency power.

[08:51] It's such a freaking joke. Okay. All

[08:52] right. India, easy to peel away. We

[08:54] already have great relations with India.

[08:55] JD Vance did a state visit to India.

[08:58] That was very not very reported. Donald

[09:00] Trump, by the way, he stopped the India

[09:01] Pakistan war. He deserves huge credit

[09:03] for that. That thing was like simmering

[09:05] up and was going to be incredible and

[09:06] big. And so then Brazil, Brazil's a

[09:08] disaster. Lula is a complete Marxist and

[09:10] communist. Bolsinaro should still be

[09:12] prime minister. So then you have Russia

[09:14] and China. That's a So Brazil, Russia,

[09:17] China. The best case telling is we can

[09:19] end this Russian Ukrainian war and

[09:21] hopefully try to create a little bit of

[09:23] separation and daylight between the ever

[09:25] growing marriage of Russia and China

[09:27] which is bad for America. It's bad for

[09:28] the West. It's bad for the world. And so

[09:31] we should want the US dollar to remain

[09:32] the world reserves currency status. It

[09:35] is imperative. Our I think reckless

[09:37] involvement in the United States with

[09:39] the Russian Ukrainian war has only led

[09:41] to ddollarization. We took Russia out of

[09:43] the Swift banking system. Basically, we

[09:46] took their dollars out of their bank

[09:48] accounts. We confiscated their dollars.

[09:50] What does that do to every other nation

[09:52] that uses dollars as the world world

[09:54] reserve currency status? We're no longer

[09:56] a safe haven. We never should have done

[09:58] that, guys. Regardless of how bad Putin

[10:01] is for invading Ukraine and all that

[10:03] stuff, basically, we deincentivize

[10:05] people to trust the dollar as a safe

[10:07] haven. Basically, we said, "Oh, if you

[10:09] misbehave, we might take away your

[10:11] dollars.