Up Next
Charlie Kirk and Lance Wallnau on Project 81, Christian Nationalism Attacks, and the Battle for Seven Swing States
29:48
Charlie Kirk Unveils Freedom Square Movement to Restore Biblical Values Across American Churches
1:35:57
Charlie Kirk and Pete Hegseth Expose the Hundred Year Progressive Takeover of American Education
1:05:44
Related Books
Browse Conservative Books
Lance Wallnau Challenges John Maxwell Over 'Don't Be Political' Message to American Pastors and Churches
Lance Wallnau confronts a troubling trend among American church leaders who advocate for pastoral silence on political issues. During a radio segment with Charlie Kirk, Wallnau responds to reports that leadership expert John Maxwell told pastors at a denominational conference to avoid political engagement entirely, warning that such involvement divides congregations and shows misplaced trust in politicians rather than Jesus. Wallnau argues this approach represents a dangerous retreat from cultural engagement that has allowed destructive ideologies to capture American institutions. Drawing parallels to Civil War-era border state churches that refused to address slavery, he calls pastors who remain silent 'border state churches' and challenges the philosophy that building bigger churches alone will transform culture.
The Border State Church Problem
Lance Wallnau shares a powerful historical analysis that frames the current state of American Christianity. A PhD student studying Civil War-era sermons discovered a revealing pattern: Northern churches preached the justice of emancipation, Southern churches defended states' rights against federal control, but border state churches—in places like Maryland, Kentucky, and Delaware—preached one message above all: stay out of politics and focus on the kingdom.
According to Wallnau, this same dynamic defines most American churches today. Faced with cultural crosswinds and potential controversy, these 'border state pastors and churches' refuse to speak truth that might provoke anyone. The psychology of fence-sitting, he argues, reveals a fundamental failure of courage in an hour demanding bold leadership.
John Maxwell's Controversial Message to Pastors
The central controversy emerged from a pastor's account of attending a denominational conference for churches with 1,000 or more members—representing the strongest congregations in America. According to the attendee who contacted Wallnau, the message delivered repeatedly throughout the conference was clear: pastors should not say anything that could be taken as political or controversial. Pastors should not be involved in politics at all because it divides people.
John Maxwell, the internationally recognized leadership development expert whose books and teachings have influenced countless pastors and business leaders, delivered what this attendee described as a 'strong rebuke of those who take a political stand or position in this hour.' The core message: Christians should be silent in the face of current challenges. Maxwell reportedly made it clear that if a pastor brings up anything political, that pastor is trusting politicians rather than Jesus.
The attendee reported that pastors around her kept leaning over saying 'this is so good, this is gold,' encouraging each other because they were relieved to have permission to avoid addressing difficult issues—what Wallnau calls the slavery question of our generation.
Where the American Church Went Wrong
Charlie Kirk asked Wallnau to identify when and how the American church, which used to be actively engaged in cultural and political issues, shifted toward this posture of retreat. Wallnau pointed to a specific moment in 1983, captured in Leadership Magazine, when Jack Hayford and Rick Warren discussed how the best way to change America in the culture war was to build better churches and more churches that preach the gospel.
Meanwhile, D. James Kennedy and others warned that while pastors pursued church growth, they should pray the marxists don't take over America, because within 30 years they would shut down churches if that trajectory continued. Kennedy argued that pastors are called to disciple the nation and win souls, not just build churches. That moment, Wallnau believes, captured the future trajectory of America.
The Willow Creek-ification of American Christianity
Kirk raised the question of whether the 'Willow Creek-ification' of the American church—the corporate, controversy-avoiding model popularized by Bill Hybels and similar megachurch leaders—proved to be a negative development. Wallnau, who worked as a church growth consultant with a Wall Street background and oil business experience before entering ministry, acknowledged there was a cottage industry built around church growth as an entrepreneurial and managerial science.
Church growth became highly systematized with seven points of contact designed to make attendees feel welcomed. The problem, Wallnau explains, is that building bigger churches did not build more influence in culture. While the church focused on growth strategies, the left captured college campuses—something Kirk's generation is now working to reclaim. Media fell under left-wing control. The devil filled the void created by Christian negligence.
For Pentecostals and charismatics—the fastest growing wing of Christianity globally—an alternative developed in movements like Toronto and Pensacola. If you weren't into church growth, you were into the supernatural. Both approaches created ditches, and neither engaged the seven mountains of culture.
For 25 years, Wallnau describes himself as 'the lone prophet' warning that failure to engage media and politics would result in takeover and shutdown. Now he watches his prophecies unfold while people belatedly acknowledge he had a point.
Charlie Kirk's Fierce Response
Kirk expressed outrage at Maxwell's reported position. He pointed out that authorities locked down churches for a year and a half to two years while marijuana dispensaries, liquor stores, and strip clubs remained open. More people killed themselves and became addicted to alcohol and drugs during this period. For a leadership development coach to then tell pastors not to be political struck Kirk as unconscionable.
Kirk argued that politics didn't come to the church by choice—politics invaded the church when government labeled it non-essential. The division Maxwell warns against was imposed from outside. Kirk stated he used to respect Maxwell but called the reported statements outrageous, saying he intended to call Maxwell directly about the issue.
The Vacuum of Leadership
Wallnau emphasized that the inability to speak truth—even basic truth like whether a man is a man or a woman is a woman—is choking America. The idea that Christians seeking political solutions are abandoning heaven represents the opposite of reality. Christians are praying to God for help, and God is providing a mechanism to influence America's future by electing people who reflect Christian values.
If Christians don't show up in the political battle, Wallnau argues, they are effectively voting for destructive forces to take over America. Pastors don't need to be obnoxious or divisive, but they absolutely must develop the skill and wisdom to teach their congregations how to think biblically and vote biblically.
The philosophy that avoids political engagement creates a vacuum that inevitably gets filled by opposing forces. Wallnau cited feedback from senators and congressmen who say they would be far bolder if churches were bolder. When a person hears God's call to run for public office, they courageously endure slander and public exposure of every past sin out of obedience—yet the church refuses to support them because they've been taught not to get involved with politics.
Pressing Questions for the Avoidance Strategy
Kirk posed a series of direct questions to test the logic of pastoral political silence. Is it wrong for a pastor to say from the pulpit that 13-year-olds shouldn't get chemical castration or gender reassignment surgery? Is that being political, or is that basic morality? Is it wrong in a private counseling session for a pastor to tell parents that their 15-year-old should not take hormone blockers or testosterone replacement therapy?
What happens when the city declares churches non-essential again during some future health crisis? Is responding to that a political statement? If Canada's trajectory is followed and traditional marriage advocacy becomes hate speech, should pastors avoid that subject to prevent division?
The Likely Maxwell Response and Why It Misses the Point
Wallnau predicted that Maxwell, being brilliant, would likely qualify his statements if challenged. Maxwell might say he never advocated for complete silence, merely cautioned against certain approaches. He might affirm that Christians should be vocal witnesses and can serve in business and corporations, listing all the domains where Christianity fits.
But here's the critical point Wallnau made: regardless of what Maxwell might say in his defense, the pastors at that conference did not walk away with nuanced understanding. An 18-year-old daughter sitting in that audience, instead of receiving strength and courage from a respected leader, had her heart broken. Instead of pastors feeling infused with vigor for the battle facing America, they high-fived each other, relieved they wouldn't have to bring up anything controversial.
That 18-year-old represents the generation receiving the accumulated negligence of the church growth and revival-focused generation. Wallnau expressed deep emotion at this reality, telling Kirk that his generation is inheriting a culture in collapse because the previous generation built big churches and sought revival while neglecting cultural engagement.
The Call for Courage Over Anxiety
While Wallnau doesn't believe the boomer generation needs to perpetually apologize, Kirk emphasized he cannot tolerate people living in denial or, worse, actively discouraging engagement in the cultural battle. That position he finds morally repulsive.
This conviction drives the partnership between Kirk and Wallnau in what they're calling the 'Courage Tour' throughout the year. Wallnau argues that the Maxwellian approach produces anxiety, but what America needs is courage. Christians need to be like Joshua—bold and courageous—because God is providing a moment, an extension of grace coming to America where God will push back against the madness.
Wallnau sees evidence of this shift even in Super Bowl advertising. Despite woke messaging, the Bud Light backlash awakened corporate America to the reality that their consultants are out of touch. America is not left-wing—America is center-right and needs courageous leadership.
The Biblical Framework for Political Engagement
Using a whiteboard illustration, Wallnau outlined how pastors should approach political issues without compromise or division. The foundation is Scripture—what does the Word of God say? This establishes principles. Those principles should shape policies on marriage, life, debt, borders, and other issues. Policies create a platform. The platform becomes what a party runs on. Candidates operate under the test of that platform based on policies rooted in biblical principles. Finally, there's personality—the actual politician or candidate.
This structure resembles an iceberg. Everything below the surface—platform, policy, principle—should be the focus, not just the visible personality at the top. People fixate on Democrat versus Republican, the personalities, but the battle should be about platform, policies, and above all, biblical principles. If pastors teach biblical principles faithfully, the rest takes care of itself. If they avoid these subjects for church growth, they risk losing people to pulpits that preach what God calls them to say.
What the Data Actually Shows
According to George Barna research cited by Wallnau, 90% of people in churches want to hear their pastors address the biblical basis for heterosexual versus homosexual marriage and the biblical basis for life versus abortion. Congregations are asking their pastors to address these issues, but pastors refuse because voices like Maxwell's tell them to avoid controversy.
The greatest fault in the biblical framework Wallnau outlined occurs at the foundational level—pastors simply won't teach what Scripture says about the issues shaping society.
Strategic Focus for Maximum Impact
Looking toward the upcoming election, Wallnau emphasized that Christians sometimes mistakenly focus all attention nationally when they actually have disproportionate influence locally. The strategic approach requires full-court engagement locally while focusing special attention on key battleground states and counties.
Wallnau identified Arizona, Wisconsin, Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania (specifically Bucks County), North Carolina, and Nevada—representing about 19 counties across seven key states. These are frontline locations where the battle will be won or lost.
Data reveals that certain counties have underperforming Christians and conservatives who should be showing up at higher levels but aren't. This happens because people don't understand the urgency of the issues, they're misinformed by only consuming secular news, or they're not connected to churches that are addressing these realities. They need engagement and education.
The strategy involves mobilizing awakened churches, strengthening believers with a biblical worldview grounded in principles, and then activating them in these critical counties to educate people and get non-voters to vote based on biblical perspectives.
The Historical Power of Evangelical Engagement
For non-evangelicals and non-Christians wondering about the potential impact, Wallnau provided historical context. When Billy Graham came on the scene in the 1950s and 60s, evangelical and mainline churches exploded in growth. This happened because the trauma of World War II and the standoff with nuclear-powered Russia made mortality and the threat of communism intensely real.
Wallnau remembers doing bomb drills as a child, getting under desks when teachers announced atomic bomb scenarios—as if that would stop radiation. This generation was primed to believe in mortality and understood that nations hung in the balance.
Billy Graham captured that moment and preached that America, without repentance, faced judgment and atheistic communism stood ready to take over, possibly through nuclear catastrophe. A move of God followed. Graham met with President Eisenhower and advocated for a National Prayer Breakfast where leaders would stand together. Eisenhower put 'In God We Trust' on currency—this was the influence of Christianity at strength.
The focus wasn't forcing people into Christian behavior but giving people awareness that God is real, souls are immortal, and walking with God's Word matters. This shaped America. Then from the 70s through the 90s, the focus shifted to church growth and revival while culture was neglected—leading to the current crisis.
Video Transcript
[00:00] [Music]
[00:02] oh boy this has been one wild day today
[00:04] just got off the uh I we did radio was
[00:07] like Nation why with Charlie Kirk and
[00:09] you know Charlie gets you into these
[00:10] subjects I can't believe he just he just
[00:12] sucks you right into the controversy but
[00:15] we got into Rob Riner and his crazy
[00:18] movie targeting people like me uh but we
[00:21] also talked about the Lakeland Church
[00:22] shooter did you know that was a
[00:24] transgender immigrant from El Salvador
[00:26] that you got to get that because Rob
[00:28] Riner says you know you're dangerous but
[00:30] it's actually the shooter at the church
[00:33] uh was a transgender immigrant but then
[00:36] we were talking about who funded the
[00:38] woke uh commercials on the uh Super Bowl
[00:42] and then we we got into it on John
[00:44] Maxwell and and the
[00:46] surprising um position he's taking on
[00:50] churches Going Quiet this year on
[00:53] politics so we got a wild show and I'll
[00:55] tell you what if it's indication of
[00:57] anything it's that this is going to be
[00:58] Super Bowl time for the Church it says
[01:01] game time people and it's uh it's time
[01:03] that you actually took a look I said
[01:04] this before you've heard me push this
[01:06] before we've got a
[01:08] window where I think there's Grace on
[01:10] America you want to stabilize your
[01:12] finances stabilize your strategy for
[01:15] going through the shaking of the future
[01:17] and you want to go to Lance
[01:19] wet.com Birch why because Birch gold is
[01:23] a place where you could put your your
[01:26] retirement money or your dollars into
[01:28] something that is actually going to
[01:30] float with the challenge the economy is
[01:33] going to go through and now's the right
[01:35] time to do that you want to go to
[01:36] lance.com if you don't understand it the
[01:39] Bible says my people that destroyed for
[01:40] lack of knowledge read the 20page report
[01:44] get it for free at lance.com now let's
[01:48] go into the incendiary Inferno that
[01:51] takes place when you do a program with
[01:52] Charlie Kirk Lance can you push back on
[01:56] this generally I want to wait back for
[01:58] radio for you to kind of go after this
[02:00] next individual and to criticize them
[02:02] but more broadly what is your response
[02:05] when people say Lance I just want to
[02:07] preach the gospel this is dividing the
[02:09] kingdom it's too nasty right now I just
[02:11] want to preach the
[02:13] gospel fascinating study was done by a
[02:15] thesis written by a PhD student who
[02:18] wanted to see what was preached in the
[02:20] United States during the Civil War in
[02:21] the North they were preaching the
[02:24] justice and the righteousness of
[02:25] emancipating the south from slavery in
[02:28] the South they were preaching the the
[02:30] Injustice of the north forcing them to
[02:33] uh comply with their federal government
[02:35] control the border states Charlie Kirk
[02:38] preached stay out of politics and focus
[02:41] on the kingdom what that tells me is
[02:44] that almost all churches today are like
[02:47] Maryland or Kentucky or Delaware they
[02:49] are border state churches that are
[02:52] acting political because the Winds of uh
[02:57] adversity are making them Tech in such
[02:59] direction that they will not provoke
[03:01] anyone by speaking truth these are
[03:04] border state pastors and churches and
[03:08] the the psychology is what fascinates me
[03:10] of people that remain on the fence and
[03:13] remain on the border where did this
[03:16] begin to go wrong Lance because the
[03:17] American Church used to be very
[03:19] political a couple decades ago yeah it
[03:22] went I'll tell you where it went South
[03:23] it went South when America had a
[03:26] prolonged period of peace and prosperity
[03:28] and didn't recognize the threat of the
[03:30] left I have a 1983 leadership magazine
[03:33] which captures the seminal moment when
[03:37] Jack Hayford and Rick Warren were
[03:40] discussing that the best way to change
[03:42] America in the culture war is to build
[03:46] better churches and more churches where
[03:48] they preach the gospel meanwhile it was
[03:50] D James Kennedy and others that said
[03:53] well while you're doing that pray to God
[03:56] that the marxists don't take over
[03:57] America because they will shut down down
[03:59] your church within 30 years if you
[04:02] pursue that you're called to disciple
[04:04] the nation and win souls not just build
[04:07] churches that moment captured the future
[04:10] trajectory of America you know there
[04:14] recently and I would like your uh
[04:16] response to this just last couple days
[04:19] uh one of the branches of Willow Creek
[04:21] Community Church is closing I I
[04:24] passively used to attend Willow Creek
[04:25] Community Church in the suburbs of
[04:27] Chicago bill hibl was a great
[04:29] communicator especially as a new
[04:30] Christian but as you dive deeper you
[04:31] realize that there there wasn't a lot of
[04:34] depth there but initial stages I have to
[04:36] say he was very helpful to me do you
[04:38] think though the Willow Creek ification
[04:39] of the American church was a negative
[04:41] thing where it came in overly corporate
[04:44] you know stay away from the
[04:46] controversial issues can you listen I
[04:49] was I worked for a while as a church
[04:51] growth consultant I was actually in and
[04:53] you know we had a Wall Street company I
[04:55] was in the oil business when I went in
[04:57] the ministry I would Moonlight as a
[04:59] consultant and help help or nonprofits
[05:02] grow so there was a cottage industry of
[05:04] how to grow a church is an
[05:05] entrepreneurial phenomena how to get the
[05:08] traffic in have seven points of contact
[05:10] and and when they come in so that they
[05:12] feel as though they're and there really
[05:13] is a strategy to building a business or
[05:16] so what happened is church growth became
[05:19] a managerial science but what we didn't
[05:22] recognize is that building bigger
[05:24] churches did not build more influence in
[05:26] culture we neglected what the left was
[05:29] doing on the campuses that you're making
[05:31] up for now in your generation yeah we
[05:33] neglected that media was being taken
[05:35] over by the left and because we didn't
[05:38] understand how just how how the devil
[05:41] will fill the void of our negligence we
[05:43] built Big churches and then another
[05:45] mistake happened Toronto for
[05:47] Pentecostals and charismatics the
[05:48] fastest growing wing of Christianity
[05:50] globally happens to be Pentecostal uh
[05:52] spirit filled and that kind of stuff and
[05:55] and so you have a Toronto Pensacola uh
[05:57] various moves of God and this became the
[06:00] alternative if you weren't into church
[06:02] growth you were into the Supernatural
[06:04] and so both of them created ditches
[06:07] neither of them would go into the seven
[06:09] mountains of culture so for 25 years I'd
[06:12] be like the lone Prophet saying if we
[06:14] don't go into media it's G to be taken
[06:16] over if we don't go into politics I
[06:18] they're gonna shut you down and I I
[06:21] prophesied it and now I'm watching it
[06:23] happened and and there a little bit late
[06:25] to the game people are going you know I
[06:28] think you have a point we got to get
[06:29] involved yeah no kidding you got to get
[06:31] involved email us freedom Charli
[06:33] kirk.com Lance stay right there in about
[06:35] 30 seconds we'll welcome our radio
[06:36] audience back and I want you to
[06:39] criticize as a major leader uh in the
[06:41] Christian I don't want you to I know
[06:42] that you're planning to and I I I want
[06:43] to get into that because it's someone
[06:45] that I've read and that I've respected
[06:46] but he has uh he's saying something
[06:48] that's pretty damaging right now I want
[06:50] to take a moment to talk about the Bal
[06:52] Financial time that we're in and I want
[06:54] you to empower yourself with knowledge
[06:56] my people perish for lack of knowledge
[06:58] the Bible says visit lance.com
[07:01] and get a free information kit consider
[07:04] discussing how to shift your 401k or
[07:07] retirement account into a tax shelter
[07:09] gold and silver account why don't you go
[07:12] to lancewallnau.com
[07:14] Birch right now and take action for a
[07:17] secure
[07:19] future Lance uh you mentioned this in
[07:21] the uh pre-show there's a person in
[07:24] major Church Christian world that is
[07:26] saying we shouldn't get involved in
[07:27] politics do I have that right
[07:30] you have it exactly right Charlie this
[07:31] is really challenging for me to share
[07:34] this it's kind of like uh when a
[07:36] Catholic disagrees with the Pope uh you
[07:39] know you really think about how hard
[07:40] you're going to go on the subject but I
[07:43] have been a student of uh leadership
[07:45] development you know got a consulting
[07:47] company business background and one of
[07:49] the key leaders who the church has
[07:51] embraced as an almost Solomon like Guru
[07:54] for success and wisdom has come out
[07:58] powerfully shutting down churches from
[08:01] engagement in the political crisis of
[08:04] our Century so I'll read to you I found
[08:07] this out from a pastor who had attended
[08:09] and they wrote to me and said I was
[08:11] attending a pastor's conference for
[08:13] churches with 1,000 or more people so
[08:17] we're talking about the strong churches
[08:19] we heard over and over again we are not
[08:21] to say anything that could be taken as
[08:23] political or controversial pastors are
[08:26] not to be involved in politics at all
[08:27] pastors should not be involved in
[08:29] politic because it divides people and
[08:32] the clear message just love people which
[08:35] goes to that you know Jesus didn't
[08:36] preach a thing right just love people
[08:39] and don't do anything that would divide
[08:41] people John Maxwell stunned me with his
[08:46] strong rebuke of those who take a
[08:49] political stand or position in this hour
[08:53] we are to be silent in the face of evil
[08:55] Maxwell made it clear that if you bring
[08:58] up anything political
[09:00] if as a pastor you bring up anything
[09:02] political you are trusting politicians
[09:05] rather than Jesus we have to deal with
[09:07] that right now you're trusting
[09:09] politicians rather than Jesus and so
[09:12] that she said the worst part is that
[09:15] pastors at the conference kept leaning
[09:17] over all around me and saying this is so
[09:19] good this is gold this is so good
[09:22] they're all like encouraging each other
[09:24] because they all are border state
[09:27] pastors right now and they're thankful
[09:29] they don't have to deal with the issue
[09:30] of slavery so it's pretty clear don't be
[09:32] political just preach the gospel shame
[09:35] on you if you're political you don't
[09:36] need Christians to be political oh my
[09:38] gosh we don't need Christians to bring
[09:39] we need Christians to bring people
[09:41] together not divide so um what is your
[09:45] thought first of all how would you
[09:46] answer that Charlie are we trusting how
[09:49] I would answer this I'd say how dare you
[09:51] John Maxwell they just locked down the
[09:53] church for a year and a half to two
[09:54] years and you're telling us not to be
[09:57] political I mean marij dispensaries and
[10:00] liquor stores remained open in strip
[10:01] clubs and more people killed themselves
[10:04] and got addicted to alcohol and drugs
[10:06] and you as a leadership development
[10:08] coach have the gall to get up on stage
[10:09] and tell people to not be political no
[10:12] politics came into the church they
[10:15] locked down the church they they labeled
[10:17] the church not essential it divides us
[10:19] no they divided
[10:21] us there you go this is a guy I used to
[10:23] respect who like how dare he honestly
[10:27] like he's he's preaching P he's teaching
[10:29] I'm going to call him this is this is
[10:30] outrageous if he actually said what this
[10:32] person said yes exactly and and and the
[10:35] reason why this is so important is
[10:38] because you know you look at the uh I
[10:40] remember Rush limbo talked about at the
[10:41] Super Bowl the NFL owners he was he he
[10:44] said they're really stuck because it's
[10:47] like CEOs in America they're hearing
[10:49] something and they believe that what
[10:51] they're hearing is true and represents
[10:54] uh America what these pastors need to
[10:57] know and what John Maxwell needs to to
[10:59] find out right now is that the majority
[11:02] of Americans in the Pew are not going to
[11:05] be politically correct because political
[11:07] correctness is killing America the
[11:10] inability to speak the truth regarding
[11:12] whether a man is a man or a woman is a
[11:14] woman is is choking us so the uh the
[11:18] idea that uh we are that we are seeking
[11:21] a solution in politics rather than from
[11:25] Heaven is the opposite of the reality
[11:28] which is we are praying to God for help
[11:31] and God is giving us a mechanism with
[11:34] which to influence the future of America
[11:36] by electing people that reflect our
[11:39] values if you don't show up in this uh
[11:43] in this political battle then you are
[11:45] actually voting for The Devil to take
[11:48] over America and these pastors that are
[11:51] being told not to St take a stand what
[11:53] they should be told is you don't ever
[11:55] have to be obnoxious or divisive you're
[11:57] not in the business of doing that any
[11:58] any more than Jesus was but you are in
[12:01] the business of learning and developing
[12:03] the skill and the Acumen to teach your
[12:06] people how to think biblically and vote
[12:09] biblically that's their
[12:11] job so was this at a this was at a
[12:14] church leadership development conference
[12:16] that said this this this was at a h
[12:20] denominational conference do we have a
[12:23] video of it that we could get our hands
[12:25] on well I'll bet you you know I'll bet
[12:27] you right now as soon as you're
[12:28] broadcast goes out they'll clamp that
[12:30] thing down but it's uh it's an Assembly
[12:34] of God denominational conference I must
[12:37] used to be the most politically engaged
[12:39] and involved Lance I didn't know that
[12:41] but but think about that so it's an
[12:43] Assembly of God if so this basically
[12:46] would be the most influential here's my
[12:48] here's my point everyone listening to
[12:51] this broadcast if you go to an Assembly
[12:53] of God Church that has a thousand or
[12:56] more people you need to let your pastor
[12:59] know that you're standing behind them
[13:01] speaking boldly courageously and with
[13:05] wisdom to educate the church on uh
[13:08] biblical citizenship and what and what
[13:10] the word of God says on the issues that
[13:12] are going to be debated in this election
[13:14] you've got to do it because what
[13:16] Maxwell's saying is ironically stay out
[13:19] of politics Pastor which tells the
[13:21] pastor to be a politician in the Pulpit
[13:24] well it's also but does that so I'd ask
[13:26] John I mean this sincerely and John
[13:28] Maxwell is welcome to on the program and
[13:29] defend it do you stay out of morality do
[13:32] you not teach the Ten Commandments do
[13:34] you just say hey we're not we don't want
[13:36] to divide people so we're just going to
[13:38] say that homosexuality is fine and we're
[13:41] gonna say transgenderism is fine child
[13:43] rape is fine I think you're right I
[13:45] think it goes right to the root of an
[13:47] error My Generation committed which is
[13:50] we thought if we focused on building the
[13:52] church and staying positive and avoiding
[13:55] controversial issues we could gather a
[13:58] bigger crowd and then influence them to
[14:00] be better Christians and they would
[14:02] therefore influence the nation to be
[14:04] more Christian it didn't work what uh
[14:08] you'll find Dallas Texas for instance
[14:09] has more mega churches than you know
[14:11] Mecca has mosques I assume but uh we
[14:14] that the church has been absolutely
[14:16] impotent in shaping the influence of the
[14:20] left-wing agenda in the schools or in uh
[14:23] or in Dallas Texas and the only time
[14:27] we've ever ever took ground was when the
[14:30] church raised up an awareness of what's
[14:33] going on on the school boards and took
[14:34] them over I I I I just want to know very
[14:39] clearly from John Maxwell is it wrong
[14:42] for a pastor to say from the pulpit that
[14:46] 13-year-olds shouldn't get chemical
[14:48] castration or what's called gender
[14:50] reassignment surgery is that being
[14:52] political or is I mean does that divide
[14:55] people is it wrong for a pastor to say
[14:58] in an individual counseling session the
[15:01] position of this church is that your
[15:02] 15-year-old should not take hormone
[15:04] blockers or testosterone replacement
[15:07] therapy I'm just wondering is that we
[15:09] don't do that because we're not
[15:10] political I mean and by the way how many
[15:14] senators I've heard this from people in
[15:16] Congress and Senate they said you know
[15:17] what we'd be a lot Bolder if you guys
[15:20] were a lot Bolder in other words that
[15:23] philosophy takes a person who hears the
[15:25] call of God to run for public office and
[15:28] they courageously go out and get
[15:29] slandered have research done on their
[15:31] background any sin they've ever
[15:33] committed is now public knowledge and
[15:35] they do it out of obedience to the call
[15:37] of God and the church doesn't support
[15:39] them because they've been taught by this
[15:42] philosophy that you don't get involved
[15:44] with politics and because we're not
[15:46] involved with politics we're creating a
[15:49] vacuum and the devil will fill a vacuum
[15:53] that's exactly right and it just it just
[15:55] sounds so good because
[15:59] you stay from stage oh you know don't
[16:01] get involved in this you know that's my
[16:03] but it's just it falls apart immediately
[16:05] so my next question to John Maxwell
[16:06] would be okay let's say that the city of
[16:10] Atlanta says that church is non-
[16:12] essential again because there's some
[16:14] abstract virus how would you react to
[16:17] that John Maxwell do you think it was
[16:19] okay that the church was labeled
[16:21] non-essential was it a political
[16:23] statement to respond to that or or let's
[16:27] go ahead and say we end up going
[16:28] direction of Canada and now in the PO
[16:31] it's considered hate speech for you to
[16:33] actually advocate for um traditional
[16:36] marriage values because it's interpreted
[16:39] as uh as as as intolerant of gay
[16:42] marriage so are you going to say avoid
[16:45] that subject uh because or now here's
[16:47] what I think John Maxwell will do
[16:49] because John is a brilliant guy I mean I
[16:51] studied him he's mentored me I was
[16:53] almost a Maxwell coach I was just too
[16:55] busy to to do the certification here's
[16:58] what he will probably say I I never said
[17:01] what you said I I merely pointed out
[17:05] that getting involved with and he'll
[17:08] he'll qualify it and then he'll make the
[17:10] statement that of course I believe
[17:13] Christians should be vocal in their
[17:15] witness and they could serve in business
[17:17] I've got all these CEOs corporations I
[17:19] believe Christianity fits here's the
[17:22] point that I would make these pastors
[17:25] did not walk away with that impression
[17:27] their 18-year- old old daughter sat
[17:29] there and instead of getting strength
[17:32] from a leader like Maxwell instead of
[17:34] these pastors feeling infused with fresh
[17:36] Vigor and vitality for the Battle of
[17:38] America they're all going away
[17:40] high-fiving each other saying I'm not
[17:42] going to bring up Trump or anything is
[17:43] controversial that 18-year-old went with
[17:45] her heart busted up because our gener my
[17:48] gener the reason why I'm so moved by
[17:50] this is I look at you Charly and I say
[17:52] you're the generation we screwed up
[17:54] we're handing off to you our negligence
[17:57] it's all the cumulative wisdom of my
[18:00] generation building big churches and
[18:02] seeking Revival that has left you a
[18:04] culture in collapse and I apologize John
[18:07] stopped saying you didn't say what you
[18:11] said yeah and there's no need to
[18:13] apologize Lance it's because we had a
[18:15] great country and we did what every
[18:19] great country does which is you get
[18:20] passive and you focus on the immediate
[18:23] and all of a sudden the enemy never
[18:25] rests and now it's time fractur what I
[18:28] won't accept though is I won't accept
[18:30] people living in denial that
[18:32] everything's fine you know I I I don't
[18:34] love this idea where you know baby
[18:38] boomers need to like perpetually
[18:39] apologize for stuff it's like okay if
[18:41] you're in the fight now no need what I
[18:43] can't stand is for people to say don't
[18:46] fight don't fight that I think that that
[18:49] I find to be morally repulsive yep and
[18:52] that's and that's the reason why you and
[18:54] I are going to be going out this year
[18:56] and and for every date that I can get
[18:57] you out there we're going to be doing a
[18:59] thing called the courage tour because
[19:02] this kind of Max swelling is what
[19:05] produces anxiety what we need is courage
[19:07] more than ever before we need to be like
[19:09] Joshua be bold and courageous because
[19:12] God is giving us a moment to to let's
[19:15] say that there's an extension of Grace
[19:17] Coming to America there's a period where
[19:18] God is going to push back on the madness
[19:21] I could see it happening even in the
[19:23] Super Bowl ads as woke as they were uh
[19:26] the budlight moment did wake up
[19:28] Corporate America and they realize maybe
[19:31] we're getting maybe our Consultants are
[19:33] out of touch with America because
[19:36] America is not left America is center
[19:39] right it needs courageous
[19:42] leadership that's right Lance stay right
[19:44] there okay Lance uh Lance I know you
[19:46] have a whiteboard somewhere right so we
[19:48] have uh we have eight minutes we have
[19:50] three and five so you go I'll cut you
[19:52] off in about three minutes you want me
[19:54] to go to the Whiteboard right now yeah
[19:56] go go do the crove thing all right Lance
[19:58] is
[19:59] uh he's going to get some sort of a
[20:01] whiteboard here it's that's what a nice
[20:03] Studio the Carl Ro thing I love it all
[20:06] right show it all right so here's the
[20:09] deal I I I I just I I was so upset with
[20:12] this John Maxwell situation that I went
[20:14] to a big church in Carolina and a lot of
[20:17] them have had John there in their
[20:18] churches so they were really mad at me
[20:20] but I said listen you have to understand
[20:23] how do you approach the political you
[20:25] pastors have to have a better strategy
[20:28] you don't have to approach it the way
[20:29] that they're talking about start with
[20:31] what does the word of God say so here's
[20:34] the Bible what does the word of God say
[20:36] because that forms your principles and
[20:39] those that are listening instead of
[20:40] seeing this I just writing principles
[20:43] now your principles should shape your
[20:47] policies policies about marriage
[20:49] policies about Life policies about debt
[20:51] $35 trillion policies about your borders
[20:55] your policies create a platform
[20:58] your platform is what your party is
[21:01] going to run on your candidates are
[21:03] under the litus test of the platform
[21:06] based on policies rooted in principles
[21:08] that are biblical in their worldview and
[21:10] finally you have a personality and that
[21:14] becomes your politician or your
[21:16] candidate this is the iceberg look at it
[21:19] this way the iceberg goes like this all
[21:22] of this area platform policy principle
[21:25] is under the surface everybody will
[21:27] focus on a Democrat and a republican
[21:30] don't let the battle be about the
[21:33] personality focus on the platform the
[21:36] policies and of Above All Things pastors
[21:39] teach biblical principles because if you
[21:42] do that the rest takes care of itself if
[21:45] you avoid these subjects because it's
[21:48] not good for church growth you might
[21:50] lose your people to the pulpit that is
[21:52] preaching what God calls them to say
[21:55] that's my thought Charlie Kirk that's
[21:57] beautifully well well done so so Lance
[21:59] where do just really quick about 45
[22:01] seconds where do most people go wrong in
[22:03] that on that ladder that Ascension from
[22:06] the Bible where where is the greatest
[22:09] fault the greatest fault George Barner
[22:11] research we have the data on this we
[22:13] study it 90% of people in the church
[22:17] want to hear their church talk about the
[22:19] biblical basis for heterosexual versus
[22:23] homosexual marriage the biblical basis
[22:25] for life versus abortion they're asking
[22:28] their pastors to talk about things the
[22:30] pastor refuses to talk about because
[22:32] John Maxwell says avoid
[22:34] it it's amazing stay right there Lance
[22:37] we're going to welcome back our radio
[22:38] audience in about 30 seconds so Lance
[22:40] build this out as marching orders Trump
[22:42] is going to be the nominee there I I
[22:45] truly
[22:46] believe that there is an effort to try
[22:50] to trim the cons the Christian
[22:54] support what is your argument how should
[22:56] we approach this
[22:59] strategically the strategy is listen
[23:02] every every state you're going to have
[23:05] to engage I think sometimes Christians
[23:07] make the mistake of thinking that uh the
[23:09] national is where their focus is the
[23:11] truth of the matter is you have
[23:12] disproportionate influence locally
[23:15] therefore we believe and Charlie's kind
[23:18] of convinced me of this in his own
[23:19] persistent way that there are certain
[23:22] key States and certain key counties
[23:25] therefore everyone must do a full court
[23:28] locally yes but there are going to be
[23:31] Arizona and Wisconsin and Georgia I
[23:34] think Michigan's back in play uh I grow
[23:37] up in Bucks County Pennsylvania
[23:39] Pennsylvania is is is has a has a
[23:41] potential there Carolina Nevada look
[23:44] what I'm listing is 19 counties seven or
[23:48] so key States and we want to go Focus
[23:52] the battle on those very Frontline
[23:54] places and so what when you get when you
[23:56] get into the details on this stuff
[23:58] and you all ought to learn this because
[23:59] you're a smart audience I I love the the
[24:01] audience you've got there are counties
[24:04] where you have
[24:05] underperforming Christians and it's
[24:07] weird we got data in other words
[24:09] conservatives and Christians should be
[24:12] showing up at this level but they
[24:13] underperform you know why well maybe
[24:15] they don't know the urgency of the
[24:18] issues maybe they're maybe they're not
[24:20] even involved with the church and
[24:21] they're only listening to the secular
[24:23] news they're
[24:24] misinformed or maybe they need you so
[24:27] what we're doing Charlie is we're
[24:29] working with you guys in order to help
[24:32] mobilize these churches that can be
[24:35] awake that we can help uh to strengthen
[24:38] you you're going to grow this year
[24:39] there's going to be Church growth for
[24:41] people that are patriots we want to
[24:43] mobilize the people that are in your
[24:44] church to be able to be strengthened in
[24:47] their worldview getting those principles
[24:49] and then mobilized in these counties we
[24:51] really do want to go out and be able to
[24:53] uh to have an effective impact on
[24:55] getting people that don't vote to vote
[24:58] and and to and to be educated on a
[25:01] Biblical perspective of how to vote and
[25:04] and just for the non-evangelicals in the
[25:07] audience the non-christians talk about
[25:08] how powerful this group once was Lance
[25:12] in in the 80s and 90s and it's been T
[25:14] it's been if it gets back to where it
[25:16] was what what does that look like well
[25:19] let me tell you something when Billy
[25:22] Graham so I was born in
[25:24] 1956 Billy Graham uh came on the scene
[25:27] and uh the Evangelical Church and
[25:30] Church's uh Mainline denominations
[25:33] exploded and growth in the 50s and 60s
[25:36] and the reason why that happened is
[25:37] because there was such a trauma of World
[25:40] War II and the and the realization of
[25:41] mortality was on people's minds that the
[25:45] threat of uh of of the standoff with the
[25:48] nuclear powerered Russia the threat of
[25:50] Communism it it had so uh sat I remember
[25:54] when I was a kid we did bomb drills and
[25:56] got under discs
[25:58] imagine how traumatizing it is when
[25:59] you're a kid and it's like okay kids
[26:01] it's time when the atomic bomb drops
[26:03] remember go under your desk and we all
[26:05] go under the desk till the teacher says
[26:07] you can come out now it's like okay like
[26:09] that's actually going to stop radiation
[26:11] from touching you so we were primed to
[26:14] believe in our mortality and that there
[26:16] were Nations at stake Billy Graham came
[26:18] on the scene Charlie Kirk and he
[26:20] captured the Zeitgeist to that moment
[26:23] and he preached to America that if it
[26:25] didn't repent it was on the balance with
[26:27] Judgment of God and atheistic communism
[26:29] was right ready to take us over and it
[26:32] could even be a nuclear moment that
[26:34] transitions America well the move of God
[26:37] happened Billy Graham meets with
[26:39] Eisenhower and says we need the
[26:41] president and we need a National Prayer
[26:44] Breakfast we need to stand together so
[26:46] Eisenhower puts in God we trust on the
[26:48] currency think about this nowadays this
[26:51] is the influence of Christianity and its
[26:54] strength and the focus wasn't on forcing
[26:57] people to have to do Christian stuff it
[27:00] was on giving people the awareness that
[27:03] God is real and that your soul is
[27:04] Immortal and that you must walk with the
[27:07] word of God that's that's what Shaped
[27:09] America and then we went from the 70s to
[27:11] the 80s to the 90s we went into the
[27:13] church growth and Revival and neglected
[27:16] the culture amen Lance excellent work
[27:19] thank you so much and we'll be fighting
[27:21] in the trenches together this uh this
[27:24] year actually it'll be I'm looking
[27:26] forward to it I think we I think it's
[27:27] going to be a great year amen it's going
[27:29] to be great Lance thanks so much what
[27:32] happens if a natural disaster takes
[27:35] place we have these weird tornadoes that
[27:37] hit in the Midwest and in Texas but look
[27:39] at the hurricanes in Florida people can
[27:41] literally have their uh houses flooded
[27:44] or they're in a situation where they
[27:45] have no food or access to groceries
[27:48] everyone needs at least a 4-week
[27:50] emergency food kit and fortunately my
[27:53] Patriot Supply has created a 4-week
[27:55] emergency kit and these products will
[27:58] last for 25 years the interesting thing
[28:00] is they give you a 2,000 calorie per day
[28:04] uh meal and that's the key delicious and
[28:07] 2,000 calories a day CU that's what
[28:09] you're going to need to sustain yourself
[28:11] for 4 weeks in a crisis we had the uh a
[28:14] winter freeze here in Texas of all
[28:15] places and we had a couple of days where
[28:17] we had no electricity I'm telling you
[28:19] something this makes a huge difference
[28:22] mushroom rice peel off fluffy rice and
[28:24] mushrooms seasoned with red wine and
[28:26] Herb and then how about starting the day
[28:28] off Maple Grove oatmeal oldfashioned
[28:31] oats maple flavoring with a pinch of
[28:33] brown sugar this is what you want to do
[28:36] four week emergency food kit and that's
[28:39] just for you think about your children
[28:41] guarantee somebody around you is going
[28:43] to need help you're going to want to at
[28:44] least have the four-week emergency kit
[28:46] go to lance.com
[28:48] Patriot use that link and you're going
[28:51] to get a special discount on their
[28:52] special 4-we emergency kit
[28:56] promotion
[29:02] did you enjoy this latest episode please
[29:04] remember to share it with your friends
[29:06] because the more knowledge you have the
[29:08] better equipped you are to navigate the
[29:14] world
Comments
Be the first to comment on this video.