Lance Wallnau Interviews Charlie Kirk on Mobilizing Young Conservatives, School Board Activism, and Turning Point Faith Initiative
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Lance Wallnau Interviews Charlie Kirk on Mobilizing Young Conservatives, School Board Activism, and Turning Point Faith Initiative
Lance Wallnau sits down with Charlie Kirk at a young women's conservative event in Dallas, Texas, where thousands gathered to hear a message rarely found on college campuses. Charlie discusses his strategy of showing up unannounced at school board meetings across the country, the launch of Turning Point Faith to find and encourage a thousand modern-day Dietrich Bonhoeffers, and why boundaries produce prosperity. From challenging corporate monopolies to equipping pastors with resources on critical race theory and transgender ideology, Charlie explains why he deleted Twitter, what he wants people praying for, and how a well-organized minority can carve through chaos to create something powerful.
Lance Wallnau opens by describing an electrifying scene in Dallas, Texas—thousands of young conservative Christian women gathering for an event that exceeded expectations. Charlie Kirk notes they reached 200 young conservative women at the summit, and could have made it even larger. The atmosphere represents something rarely seen in secular culture or on college campuses: young women hungry for order in the midst of chaos.
Charlie identifies what resonates with this generation: clarity about eternal values, empiricism over abstractions, and a vision for building something that outlasts individual lives. He emphasizes the importance of meaningful relationships with the Creator, followed by building families—the foundation of how civilizations continue. This message stands in stark contrast to what young people encounter in secular social media and educational institutions.
Showing Up Unannounced at School Board Meetings
Charlie reveals his new strategy of appearing randomly at school board meetings across the country, starting with Chandler Unified School District. He refuses to be someone who merely complains without taking action, stating he tries to practice what he preaches. After getting married and taking time off, he committed to attending school boards throughout the summer, never announcing his presence in advance.
Lance observes a pattern emerging across the country, particularly in Southlake, where mobilized parents successfully flipped school boards, county commissions, and mayoral offices. He attributes this grassroots surge to frustration following the November 3rd election experience. Charlie agrees, noting that school boards have become the platform where pent-up frustration finds expression—a sandbox for airing grievances about vaccines, masks, critical race theory, and transgender policies.
The key insight: school boards represent a place where ordinary citizens can make meaningful differences, unlike writing letters to congressmen or posting on Facebook. Lance emphasizes that while 70% of Americans tend toward conservative values and aren't natural protesters, they transform into fierce activists when their children are threatened. When mothers realize their sons and daughters are being propagandized, the maternal instinct creates commandos out of soccer moms.
Fighting the Evil of Judging by Skin Color
Charlie articulates a fundamental moral principle: it is evil to judge people based on something they cannot control. He draws a parallel to how society treats people with disabilities—we recognize they cannot control their condition. This same principle built Western civilization, yet it's being violated in schools where children face shame based on melanin content.
The conversation turns to critical race theory, with Charlie comparing Nicole Hannah-Jones of the 1619 Project to historical figures like John C. Calhoun and Nathan Bedford Forrest—all three sharing middle names and all teaching that skin color matters. Charlie's conclusion is simple and direct: if you think skin color matters, you're a racist. Lance notes the challenge is framing the outrage effectively, as many Americans dismiss reports of what's happening in schools as too evil to be real, assuming it must be an SNL prank.
The Charlie Kirk Show and Staying Free from Cancel Culture
Lance asks how people can follow Charlie's work, and Charlie directs listeners to the Charlie Kirk Show podcast, available on every phone's podcast app. He mentions that Lance has been a guest and will likely appear again. Charlie then shares a revealing anecdote about his relationship with controversy and criticism.
When told he was trending on Twitter, Charlie's response was that it felt the same as when he didn't know he was trending. He deleted Twitter from his phone and refuses to care about what people say about him online, including pastors who criticize him publicly but never call him directly. His philosophy: he cares what people he actually cares about say—his wife, close friends, and co-workers. This rejection of reputational damage concerns allows him to live a free and full life by simply telling the truth.
Lance predicts that pastors defending the transgender agenda, racial division, and open borders will face pushback from their own congregations. Charlie expresses hope for this development, while Lance calls it "pastor disaster"—setting themselves up for problems with their own people.
The Church as America's Safety Net Through History
Charlie introduces the seven mountains concept that Lance champions—academia, business, government, media, arts, family/education, and church. When asked where to make the greatest impact, Charlie identifies the church as the institution that has saved America every time the nation has fallen. He uses the illustration of a trust fall, where someone falls backward trusting others to catch them. The church has always been there to catch America in that trust fall.
Throughout American history, from the founding through the First, Second, and Third Great Awakenings, to Billy Graham's Fourth Great Awakening, the church provided the moral foundation for national renewal. Charlie highlights an often-forgotten aspect of Billy Graham's ministry: he didn't start as the fatherly figure of the 1970s and '80s crusades. He began as an apocalyptic prophetic voice warning about dangers to the American experience if it didn't align with God's purposes through Jesus Christ.
Billy Graham spoke powerfully against socialism and communism, calling communism "Satan's religion." In sermons from the 1950s, Graham identified communism's god as materialism and sexual indulgence, contrasting it with the God of the Bible and Jesus Christ. This clear preaching prevented America from falling to secular socialism during that era and enabled the eventual defeat of the Soviet Union.
Ronald Reagan's Theological Battle Against the Soviet Union
Charlie gives Ronald Reagan credit often overlooked by historians who focus solely on economics. Reagan declared a theological debate in 1982-1984, traveling the world to articulate a simple distinction: we believe in God and they don't. We believe in an eternal transcendent order and they don't, and we're going to win because of that.
Reagan liberated Americans to view the Soviet geopolitical struggle as a transcendent battle between the divine and materialistic darkness attempting to establish an earthly kingdom without God. America won that struggle. However, Charlie identifies the 1990s as a period of catastrophic mistakes following the Soviet Union's fall.
He describes the "Four Horsemen of the '90s": mass immigration legislation passed by George H.W. Bush in partnership with Ted Kennedy bringing 1.9 million people annually into the country; NAFTA ratification in 1994; the repeal of Glass-Steagall in 1999; and China's entry into the World Trade Organization in 2001. Instead of recommitting to American excellence, family, and national identity, the country pursued cheap profits, cheap money, cheap plastic, and cheap pleasure from China and abroad.
The Naivety of Engaging China
Lance addresses the ideological naivety of believing engagement with China would democratize the Chinese Communist Party. Instead of reforming China, America funded its rise to power—inviting the tiger into the tent. Charlie connects this to faulty logic in the faith community, where some believe ideological enemies can be won by establishing conditions for acceptance and proliferation.
Lance frames this as attempting to "love Hitler into a change of disposition towards Poland"—a strategy doomed to fail. He identifies the church's domination by "lovers" who want peace at any price, like Neville Chamberlain. What's needed are more Churchills—mobilizing words as battalions to align armies and take the battle to enemy strongholds. Beyond lovers and warriors, the movement needs statesmen willing to fund the fight.
A private frustration emerges: while the left enjoys abundant funding, conservatives struggle to secure resources for the most crucial battles of the generation. Charlie agrees that organizations like Turning Point USA demonstrate measurable impact, but breaking through to the faith community remains challenging.
Turning Point Faith: Finding a Thousand Dietrich Bonhoeffers
Charlie announces he has spoken at over 60 churches in the past year, initially by accident since churches were among the only places open during lockdowns. This experience revealed a real movement within faith communities. He takes time to praise good pastors including Rob McCoy, Jack Hibbs, James Kaddis, Pastor Jurgen, the Barnetts, and Ken Graves—leaders who warmly embraced him and want to join the coalition.
The vision for Turning Point Faith may be foolishly optimistic, but Charlie has been called that before. The goal: find and encourage a thousand Dietrich Bonhoeffers. Not train or create them, but find and encourage them. This two-fold mission—find and encourage—represents the strategy. Charlie chooses the Bonhoeffer example deliberately because of the circumstances of tyranny he faced and his willingness to sacrifice everything, ultimately his life, for God's purpose on earth.
Lance suggests using Martin Luther instead for branding purposes, since Bonhoeffer's martyrdom isn't the greatest sales pitch. But Charlie insists on honesty about cost—it may require our lives, though we're all eventually going to heaven anyway. Bonhoeffer exemplifies willingness to sacrifice everything for God's purpose, and his name will be mentioned as long as humans have breath.
Freedom Square and Resources for Pastors
Charlie introduces Freedom Square, a program held the first Tuesday of every month at Dream City Church (formerly Phoenix First Assembly under Tommy Barnett, now led by Luke Barnett). Two thousand people have attended for two consecutive months, and the vision is to export and empower pastors to replicate this model in their own communities.
Freedom Square focuses on local issues and their intersection with the Bible. Pastor Jurgen at Awaken Church, Jack Hibbs, Rob McCoy, and Steve Smotherman at his large Albuquerque church are all implementing this model. The goal is hundreds of churches hosting similar gatherings. What makes Turning Point Faith different is the approach: instead of asking churches for money, they ask pastors how Turning Point can help them.
Charlie identifies the number one problem pastors face according to Barna research: navigating the minefield of current issues like transgender ideology and critical race theory. Pastors risk losing congregants without gaining new ones, so they need practical guidance. Turning Point Faith will provide easy-to-print, downloadable sermon resources on these issues—similar to what Rick Warren used to offer on grace before "going woke."
The mission isn't building a megaplex Christian incorporated empire or taking credit. Charlie simply wants to participate in an energy flow toward the good, raising up leaders willing to take courageous stands. He encourages young conservatives to approach their pastors requesting Turning Point Faith to visit their church, and when pastors say no, to ask again.
Taking Rush Limbaugh's Time Slot on WABC
Lance, who once lived in Long Island and listened to WABC while working as a Fortune 500 consultant in Babylon, expresses excitement that Charlie now occupies Rush Limbaugh's time slot on the legendary New York station. The Charlie Kirk Show now broadcasts on over 100 stations across the country in addition to the podcast. Charlie acknowledges feeling the pressure of this responsibility and asks for prayer.
When asked what people should pray for, Charlie requests three things: wisdom, protection, and clarity. Lance commits the audience to covering these areas in prayer, then launches into a lightning round of quotes from Charlie that staff members captured.
Purpose Comes from Telos
Charlie explains that purpose derives from the Greek word "telos," meaning "far out in the distance, that which is worth aiming for"—the root of "telescope." Young people in America suffer from a lack of purpose, not knowing why they're here or what they're doing. They're fed depressing secular nihilistic messages that they exist by random chance, weren't designed for purpose, and have no end goal.
A renewal of purpose through a biblical worldview becomes imperative. Charlie emphasizes that it's what you don't do that gives fulfillment—the wise restraints that keep you free. This Harvard Law School quote captures a truth opposite to secular culture's message. True freedom comes from restraint.
What you choose not to do actually preserves freedom: not taking harmful substances, not associating with destructive friends, not engaging in promiscuous relationships. Young people need to understand that moral restraints and boundaries produce true freedom. The Ten Commandments exemplify this—many are negative commandments telling people what not to do: don't murder, don't lie.
Boundaries Save Lives and Produce Prosperity
Lance shares a story about his brother Carl on a construction site roof with their father, an Exxon employee and World War II veteran. Two-year-old Carl walked toward the roof's edge, and their father yelled "Carl, stop!" The child froze instantly due to training and respect for his father's commanding voice. Carl didn't need to understand why—he needed to know the prohibition existed for his survival.
This illustrates the biblical principle: God's boundaries in Scripture exist to save people from pain, not keep them from pleasure. Charlie agrees, emphasizing that boundaries produce prosperity. For young women seeking to date winners and marry men going somewhere, Charlie advises looking for guys with direction, responsibility, purpose, ethics, integrity, and willingness to defend the good and defend them.
Capitalism Versus Corporatism
Charlie distinguishes between capitalism and corporatism, noting the conservative movement lost its way by worshiping corporations for their own sake. He affirms support for free markets, entrepreneurship, people starting something from nothing, and private property rights—which he views as directly linked to freedom and what separates conservatives from the socialist left.
However, he doesn't view Amazon's growth rate as positive. Amazon functions as a Democrat super PAC with package redistribution centers that establish operations near communities like Fountain Hills, Texas, then leverage their position as the number one job producer to influence local government and school boards. They threaten to shut down plants if communities don't implement preferred policies on transgender issues.
This represents cultural invasion disguised as job creation, especially concerning given that 40% of small businesses shut down. America de-industrialized Main Street, imported cheap products from China, and replaced local economies with quick delivery systems. These new job centers take hyperaggressive secular stances on life, gender, and identity issues, then use economic leverage to implement agendas conservatives oppose.
Lance references Victor Davis Hanson's observation that traditional conservative retreat zones—the military and corporations—have been compromised. Wall Street once aligned with Republicans while Democrats represented unions. Donald Trump flipped this dynamic, representing middle class and working class Americans against big elites, who then closed ranks to destroy him.
Breaking Up Social Media Monopolies
Charlie advocates for breaking up large technology companies, acknowledging this isn't a free market position. However, he argues these companies don't believe in free markets either—Google wants total monopoly and doesn't want competition. The question becomes: why do we value free markets? For human flourishing. Why do we like limited government? Because we oppose concentrated power.
The same logic applies to Google—we should oppose their excessive power. The common denominator is preventing small groups from accumulating too much power. When they use that power for evil, standing against them becomes imperative. Lance connects this to Theodore Roosevelt's trust-busting against Rockefeller and Carnegie, suggesting America wants similar action against today's oligarchs.
In revolutionary chaotic times, opportunities emerge. Lance mentions Lenin, and Charlie provides historical context: many historians now believe Lenin was released from German prison and sent on a train to Russia specifically to break the Eastern front of World War I. The Germans needed to soften the Eastern line by revolutionizing Russia. The strategy worked in 1917.
The point both men emphasize: in times of chaos and revolution, a well-organized minority can carve through disorder to create something revolutionary and powerful. Charlie Kirk leads exactly this kind of movement and energy.
Getting Connected and Supporting the Mission
People can follow Charlie through the Charlie Kirk Show podcast, visit tpusa.com or charliekirk.com, and contribute financially if they feel compelled. Charlie downplays fundraising, stating he's not present to ask for money but to spread good ideas. His upcoming book carries the working title "The College Scam"—characteristically direct and guaranteed not to win friends among higher education administrators.
Lance closes by urging prayer for Charlie Kirk, who faces tremendous pressure. The priorities remain clear: wisdom, protection, and clarity. Above financial support or social media following, the most important action is committing to courageous action consistent with the gospel of Jesus Christ, especially in the public square. In Lance's words, the more knowledge people have, the better equipped they are to navigate the world.
Video Transcript
And so Charlie Kirk and I were together in Dallas for the young women's event. Thousands never heard thousands of screaming young conservative mostly Christian women in Dallas, Texas. You got to hear the South rise again when you hear that sound. And so Charlie was just not even married to Eric yet. She was there. He was introducing her. and uh he was kind enough to hang out with me and I caught an interview with him just doing random like we would do just random talking about whatever uh just two guys constantly being misrepresented in the media always comparing notes in private about Christian nationalism and the latest articles. But uh I wanted to share it with you because now you go back in your archives, right? I got friends of mine going back to texts from Charlie or pictures they have and it just it makes you realize how precious he is, how precious life is, and how important Turning Point is and how much we're all really part of their organization. So, I wanted to share this with you. Watch this. Welcome to our latest uh broadcast we're doing right now with Lance Swallow. And here's a man who should need no introduction, but I want to make sure all of you know who he is. Charlie Kirk has single-handedly mobilized the next generation of conservatives and Christians uh in the unreachable youth and millennial bracket. And somehow through his own catalytic style and chaotic approach, he has cobbled together some kind of a u an idea that captured so much imagination. Even the president himself, Donald Trump, recognized this guy is carrying the future of America for the next generation. and I want you to meet him and hear from him in person. Charlie Kirk, welcome. >> Lance, thank you. >> Good man. >> You're on fire right now because I'm this I understand that you're like 80% over the quota of where you were last year for the same event. >> Well, we didn't have it last year for obvious reasons because of the lockdowns. We wished we could have, but uh yeah, I mean we we're at 200 young conservative women here. It's pretty amazing. >> Young conservative women. I'll bet you there's a lot more out there. And I'll bet you I've got a demographic with a lot of the parents probably because that's my that's my age demo. But uh what are you seeing out there in that is they're resonating with what's the what's what's actually what are they responding to in your message? >> A couple different things. I mean I talked about this a little bit this morning. I think there is a growing desire and a growing appetite for order in the midst of chaos of our entire society. I think that conservatives must be very clear about what we stand for and why we stand for it. such as things that are eternal, things that are divine, things that have proven to work. Uh we must be rooted in empiricism and not just abstractions. So not just these like kind of like one-off sound bites, but instead we should really be clear about what we value, which is we want people to have meaningful relationships for their creator, then hopefully with a significant other, come into a union where they build something that can outlive them, like a family. That is how a civilization continues. And I think you see here at this young conservative women's summit here in Dallas. Uh that is not a message you hear in secular social media culture or in college campuses. And I think that there's I mean there's an incredible amount of momentum we have here Lance. I mean we could have got we could have had this even bigger. The largest ever young conservative female summit that we know of in history >> you know and my daughter of course went to college here in a secular campus. She graduated magnet come Kumlad and I asked her said what was it like? She said it was a daily battle against indoctrination and a choice as to how you picked your battles if you wanted to have an existence. I mean, but but let's go to something else you're doing because it goes down to the school board. So, it's not just the colleges because the colleges is almost like the institutional seven mountain stuff. We let the college ball the ball got out of our control, but now it's trying to take territory K through 12. But you're doing something very mischievous. I hear that you are just popping up at schoolboard meetings. Is that this is extremely mischievous. Is this what you're doing? >> Yes. It's been a lot of fun. So, I popped up randomly at the Chandler Unified School District a couple nights ago. And look, I'm not a guy that complains about something trying to do about it. I can't stand that. I can't stand this kind of spectator political culture that's been kind of created like, oh, here's everything wrong. And you know, the America's going into I try to practice what we preach. Don't always do that, but I try my best. And the schoolboard thing, I've been kind of ranting about it for the last couple months. Got married, took some time off, which I was very happy about. And I said, "Right when I get back, I'm going to do this thing." And so I'm going to be going to school boards all across the summer. I'm just going to be showing up. And if they have me, then great. And if they have some problem with it, then they're going to have to explain to me why. >> But it's a random uh showing so they never know. >> They never know. So any school board at any time, I hope you guys are listening. You might have me testify there. >> But the parents need to get involved is the point. And in South Lake here, we've seen something historic happen where they were mobilized. Parents that got informed showed up and suddenly you're seeing school boards getting flipped over. You're seeing county commission offices being changed, mayors being changed. I think a grassroots mobilization is coming out of the frustration with the election experience November 3rd. There's a there's a grassroots push back. Is that what you're seeing here? I'm seeing it all over my audience. >> Yeah, totally. I think the school boards have now become the place where all this kind of pentup frustration kind of is now getting kind of has a platform. now has an area where this is and people are kind of all angry about their own thing and it's kind of fun. It's magical. It's like okay this is where we're going to air this all and by the way that's the best place. It's kind of this kind of like sandbox for the airing of grievances of everything that's been happening wrong where there's some people are like you know what they have the vaccines and some people like I don't like the mask some people critical race theory some people it's this transgender thing I'm like keep coming this is the place to do it and actually it's actually a place where you can make a meaningful difference I'm like I'm going to go write a letter to my congressman like yeah that's fine terrific >> yeah and your Facebook uh protest doesn't work unless you're in their district anyway so they really don't care what your opinion >> school boards are the perfect place for this >> and you know what I have a theory on this I have a theory that Americans ans for the most part they tend to be 70% of American the conservative uh leaning conservative element they're not by nature uh protesters they're not by nature going to break out windows and and yell and scream so it takes a lot to get them to be activists but if you touch their children you touch little Tommy or Susie and they're suddenly realizing mama is realizing you're threatening my children the more that we carry the argument to the mothers that they're propagandizing ing your son and your daughter, they're messing with your baby. That's where you're going to see this the soccer moms become like commandos at Normandy. They're suddenly showing up with >> Well, no, that's the maternal instinct that needs to kick in. And I mean, we need mothers to now defend their nation and defend the values they care about like they would their own home and their child because their child is being propagandized. And if you're a mother out there and your kid is being taught that there's something wrong with their existence because of the melanin content in their skin, here's a general rule of thumb. It is evil to judge people based on something they can't control. >> Right? >> For example, if there was someone that was handicapped here, we're like, "Oh, you know, they can't control that." So, that's a general moral principle that built the West. >> My god, it's crazy. Imagine shaming a child, a seven-year-old, 8-year-old, nine-year-old, 10-year-old because they have blue eyes or brown eyes or blonde hair. Well, that's what's happening. >> Well, that's exactly. And we just haven't figured out how to frame the outrage of the week. So that it's like, are you aware of this? Because I still think there's a certain amount of America is going, "What are they doing?" It's like, "Well, no, it's almost so evil and insidious people dismiss it at face value." Like, "Oh, no. It can't be that bad. This has got to be some SNL prank." No, it actually is that bad. >> This is Nathan Bedford Forest, John C. Calhoun, Nicole Hannah Jones. All three of them have three names, and they're all kind of they all taught the same thing. John C. Calhoun repopularized slaver slavery in the 1820s. Nathan Bedford Forest started the KKK. Nicole Hannah Jones runs the 1619 project. All of them think skin color matters. If you think skin color matters, you're a racist. >> Well, you know what? Let me tell you something right now. Those of you that are watching this, I want to make sure that you're able to keep track with Charlie because you can hear these wild ideas every day. Tell us about your podcast and your radio. How do they keep in touch with you? >> They are wild and they're fun, entertaining, and true. They can check out the Charlie Kirk Show podcast. Every phone out there has a podcast app, so if they take it out, type in Charlie Kirk show, hit subscribe. You've been a guest on our podcast. >> Indeed, I have. I >> You will be again. We might reair this on our podcast for all we know. >> I think so. I think >> if you if you'll allow us to. >> Abs. Oh, absolutely. >> Well, there we go. >> And that and that's setting us up for the next conversation I want to have, which is how we can expand the number of people that are scandalized by association with you because I'm frustrated with the response of the church in general. This is my pet peeve. and and and a lot of it is like people of faith. You would think that they would identify with these issues, but for the most part, there's like a massive disconnect. And I don't know how to describe it. >> I have to say this. I know we're up against a hard break. >> I know, I know, I know. >> I got this text message. You're like, "Charlie, you're trending on Twitter." I said, "You know what? It feels the same as when I didn't know I was trending on Twitter." I deleted Twitter from my phone. People say, "Oh, yeah. These pastors are coming after you." I said, "Really? They've never called me." And meaning I don't really care what people say about me or what they do. I care what people I care about say about me. like my wife or my close friends or my co-workers. Yeah. And so this kind of this idea of like, oh, you're gonna have such reputational damage. I'm like, really? >> You could live a free life and a full life if you just tell the truth. >> Absolutely. Besides, I'm telling you, I'm going to predict something that the pastors that are trying to defend the transgender agenda, the racial stigmatizing and and division of society, the open borders that are producing a landmass invasion of the country. pastors are going to find themselves getting a push back from their own people. >> I hope so. I >> I believe it. I believe there's like pastor disaster out there is setting himself up for a problem. But we're going to be coming back in a moment with more with Charlie Kirk cuz we're just scratching the surface on these subjects right now. Hello, I'm Lance Wall now interviewing the revolutionary Charlie Kirk who is leading a massive movement of young people across America much to the consternation and traumatizing of the left. Uh Charlie has somehow combined uh I think it was your your journey trying to get to West Point. I think this is it. I think he has a kind of builtin sense of generalship, how to marshall forces so as to achieve an objective. And we've been really vague about this and and I got to introduce you to the seven mountain idea on academia and big business, big government, big media, big arts. Uh and then the family and education and then the church. >> Uh where do you think the hot spot is right now? Cuz you're you're all over those places. But where what would you like to say about making a difference in We talked about education last segment. Where else can we make an impact? >> Well, the church. >> All right, let's go there. >> And I just want to compliment you. The seven mountains is brilliant. It really is good. And look, I mean, the church is the place that has saved America every time that we've fallen. And so I use the illustration a lot of times of young people and Christians. You've all seen the trust fall before. And when someone just falls back, someone's there to catch them, right? >> Well, the church has always been there to catch America in that kind of trust fall. Whether it's be the founding of America, the first great awakening, the second great awakening, the third great awakening, or Billy Graham, the fourth great awakening, who spoke out against socialism and communism as quote, "Satan's religion." You don't hear the skinny jean people say that. Wait, I I have to say something here. I was not aware that anyone else was saying this. This is what happens when I talk to you. I find out that we're talking about the same thing. And it wasn't cuz we were colluding. So go ahead. This whole people miss this about Billy Graham. They always think of Billy Graham like he was the kind of fatherly in the 1970s and ' 80s, the Billy Graham crusade where it's just as I am and it's John 3:16. But he started off as an apocalyptic prophetic warning voice about the dangers of the American experience being judged if it didn't identify itself with God's purposes and Jesus specifically. >> Totally. >> So, so go keep going. >> Well, and I give him a lot of credit for inspiring smaller churches to actually speak out against the rise of socialism and communism in the in the 1950s where there were deliberate attempts by the KGB to try to infiltrate our culture. And Billy Graham stood against that. There's a beautiful sermon where he said communism is Satan's religion. And he goes through it and he says their god is that of materialism. Their god is one of sexual indulgence. And he's either we're going to have the god of the bible and the son of son of god Jesus Christ or we're going to have whatever they want to usher in. And I'm paraphrasing the sermon. But that's the essence of it. >> But and he said some stuff. He said because I wanted to I wanted to quote him extensively in a book and I got you'd be surprised how you can't quote these quotes because they're so powerful and it's like somebody was fighting me. But uh he said that the great challenge for Christianity in the west was that the communists are more willing to sacrifice and pay a price to advance their ideology of death and destruction than Christians are as missionaries to lay down their life for a message that touches not only the age to come but the age that is right now. That's right. >> And it's like my gosh, we need preaching like that. Don't you think that's >> Oh, I mean it's that's the kind of the clear preaching that quite honestly prevented America from falling to this secular type of socialism in the 50s60s and 70s and then we defeated the Soviet Union largely because Ronald Reagan declared a theological debate. Ronald Reagan without and this is the credit he deserves that he never gets. It was always this idea, oh we had better economics. That's all true. I I don't y I don't I don't disagree with that. But he made a theological debate in 82 83 84. Ronald Reagan would go around the world and he'd say, "Look, we believe in God and they don't. We believe in an eternal transcendent order and they don't and we're going to win because of that." And he kind of liberated Americans to look at the Soviet geopolitical struggle as actually a transcendent struggle of the divine versus that which tries to usher in this kind of materialistic dark earthly kingdom. And we won. And then post Soviet Union falling the '9s, I think we really made a lot of mistakes where we had mass migration passed by George HW Bush doing a deal with the metaphorical devil with Ted Kennedy. Uh mass immigration bringing 1.9 million people into our country every single year, every single year to 1994 where we ratified NAFTA to 1999 where we repealed GlassSteagall to 2001 when we led in China into the World Trade Organization. I call this the four horsemen of the 90s where we had an opportunity to really recommmit ourselves to American excellence and the family and who we are as a nation. Instead, we sought cheap profits, cheap money, cheap plastic and cheap pleasure from China and abroad. >> Yeah. Yeah. I also think there was an ideological naivity and it w and it's very important you catch this in the audience that there was this idea that we were going to engage China and bring them in to a kind of a democratizing of their radical CCP potential criminal activity only to find out that uh we had invited the tiger into the tent and that they actually we weren't reforming them we were funding them. >> That's right. And so I fear that this same faulty logic exists in many people in a faith community that they think that something that is an ideological enemy can be won by establishing conditions where it can be accepted, embraced and proliferated with your engagement as though you're going to kind of love Hitler into a change of disposition towards Poland. Not going to happen. But this dichotomy of lover and warrior and statesman is something that I think that you've been able to figure out how to negotiate that there's the lovers already dominate the church world. They're the ones that want peace at any price like Neville Chamberlain. We need more church hills which is what you are which is mobilizing words as battalions to to to attract the alignment of the army to go to the high places and take the battle to the enemy. And where are the statesmen funding this? You want to know what a private frustration of mine is for guys like this? The left is lubricated with money and we could barely get the funding out on the most crucial battle of your lifetime. >> I think the evidence is there that organizations like this are making a difference. >> But we got to get into the faith community. Let's talk about what you're doing with the faith initiative. Are you going to churches? Are churches opening up? What's happening? >> I I've spoken at over 60 churches in the last year. 6. And by total accident, it's cuz they're only places that were open. And I realized that there was a real movement. And for every >> minute of criticism I give towards pastors, I want to give at least 10 seconds of praise. There are some good pastors out there. Rob McCoy, Jack Gibbs, James Cadis, Pastor Jurgen, the Barnetts, Ken Graves. I could go through them and they've warmly embraced me and they want to be part of this kind of coalition. You know these people. That's why you're chuckling. >> No, I'm I'm laughing because it's pretty bad. It's like when we talk about there are some good people in Republican party and and you can list who they are because we all know there there's like six or seven our favorite. >> Keep going. Greg Fair. You said 60. I'm sure there's half of them. >> So at Turning Point Faith, we're going to try to our vision and it might be foolishly optimistic, but I've been called that before and now you can kind of see it. We want a thousand Dietri Bonhoffers. We're not going to say like we're going to create them. I want to find them and encourage them. That's it. Find and encourage. Find and encourage. That's it. Because I'm not going to like train people or pass like it. I just want to find and encourage them. >> Here's just a branding idea. Dedric Bonhaofer died as a martyr. Go with the go with a thousand Martin Luther. It's got a little more >> that that's fair. I like the Bonhoffer example because of the circumstances, the tyranny. >> Yes. Yes. >> And but you know, I also like the Bonhoffer because I never want to make anyone feel as if I'm being anything but honest. It's going to cost us something. God forbid our life like that, but eventually we're all going to have to go to heaven. And so Bonhaofer is the example of, hey, I'm willing to sacrifice everything I have for God's purpose on earth. But I hear you. It's not exactly the greatest salesp. >> Yeah. No, no, I'd ra I suppose I'd rather die in a glorious martyrdom than by got Doritos stuck in my throat. >> They say you die twice when you actually die and the last time somebody mentions your name. Bonhaofer will be mentioned I think as long as human beings have breath. With that being said, I think so this this faith initiative we have is very very important. The pastors need to rise up and take ownership. >> What do you do? Okay, so what happens if someone goes I want my church involved pastor's watching they go or pastor's wife says I'm in. What do they do? >> So I'll give you one piece of programming we have. We started something called Freedom Square. It's the first Tuesday of every month at Dream City Church, formerly Tommy Barrett's church. Now Luke Barnett's church. It's used to be Phoenix first. Now it's Dream City Church. We have 2,000 people that have showed up two months in a row. And we want to export this and empower and encourage pastors to do it for themselves. And I say, "Well, what is this?" It's programming where we talk about all the local issues and how they intersect intersect with the Bible. Pastor Jurgen's going to do it at Awaken Church, Jack Hibbs. We got Rob McCoy, and we got Steve Smotherman with his huge church out in Albuquerque. We want to get hundreds of churches to do that. In addition, we're just going to have a coalition with no asks. This is the crazy thing. Like all these people come to these churches and are asking for money. I'm going to go to these pastors and our network will how can we help you? And they're going to say, "You know what? I need three easy to give sermons on where grits come from." Perfect. We want to be a resource center. We want to be a place of encouragement. We want a place of >> This is true. You know, I I did I saw a survey with Bara and he said that the number one problem that pastors are having is it's a landmine field. You know, how do they talk about the current transgender issues, critical race theory, cuz really there's a lot of risk. They're not adding people to their audience, but they are potentially losing people. So, they need the talking point. I know you say that. I But that's your That's what makes you you. These guys are the lovers. They're not the warriors, and they're trying to to heal everybody. But, uh, well, they get Well, they get talking points that'll help them navigate around these issues. >> Yeah. So, think Rick Warren. >> Rick Warren used to have these easy to print downloadable public sermons on grace, and they were really good before Rick Warren got went woke. Right. Right. and we want to do the same thing for these issues. And that's just one of many resources. And then more than anything else, Lance, I'm not here to take credit. I'm not here to build some sort of megaplex Christian Incorporated thing. I just want to play a part in an energy flow towards the good. That's it. >> And raise up a thousand martyrs in the process. >> We're all We're all going to be m we're all dead eventually. And then we get to truly live. >> I love it. I love it. I'm Listen, I'm so inspired. I'm ready to go kill myself. Thank you. Now, here here's here's what here's what I want to do. If they want to follow you, what do they got to do? >> They can go to tpusa.com. They can also go to charliekirk.com. And more importantly, just the following is great and all this. Just commit yourself to cou courageous action that is consistent with the gospel of Jesus Christ, especially in the public square. >> All right. So, just real quick, it's got 30 seconds. If I'm a young conservative listening to you right now and I'm going to church, can I promote you this somehow in my church? What do I do? >> Of course. You should go to your pastor and say, I want to have turning point faith come to my church. and their pastor will say no and then you should ask again. >> That's putting your faith out there, folks. All right, so I'm gonna we're gonna close this segment now. We're going to come back hopefully. We got one more and oh boy, you don't want to miss the next one, but nothing. >> I am so excited to have Charlie Kirk on my show today. And the reason why I'm excited is because I actually, you know, I was uh born in Long Island and I worked as a consultant at a Fortune 500 company in Babylon, Long Island. Can you believe Babylon exists? But we used to listen to WABC, the top station up in New York and the metro area. And Charlie now has a show that's going to be on WABC. And what time is it going to be on? >> So it's Russia's slot. Uh it's new every day. >> Limba slot, people. Isn't that great? over a hundred stations now across the country in addition to our podcast. Uh we've been really blessed and so WBC is a great station and uh it's a lot of pressure. So I pray that we'll be able to not >> Well, we're I want you to pray for this guy. Pray he's got tremendous pressure on him all the time. Pray for him. What if people were praying for you? What do you want him to pray for? >> Wisdom and protection. >> Yeah. >> And clarity. >> Wisdom, protection, and clarity. All right, we got that covered. We got it covered that. We'll take care of that. I want to give you some quotes, Charlie. Lightning round. Some interesting statements you made. our staff heard you say and I want you to spontaneously um and extemporaneously talk about it. Purpose comes from a Greek word you you will get educated on his podcast people. Telos that word I remember is like in telescope but I don't know what you're talking about. Talk to me about the relationship between telos and purpose. >> So it's that whoever took those notes is a very good listener. So yes, purpose comes from a Greek word telos which means far out in the distance. that which that which we're which is worth aiming for. And that's where we get telescoped from. And so I think that we have a lack of purpose with a lot of young people in our country. They don't know why they're here. They don't know what they're doing. And they're kind of fed this awfully depressing secular nihilistic pabum where there is you're just here by an act of randomness. You you weren't designed for a purpose. You don't have any sort of end goal in mind. And so I think a renewal of purpose, especially through a biblical worldview, is imperative. It's what you don't do that will give you fulfillment. What does that mean? >> It's the wise restraints that keep you free. So that that is >> you got you got to unpack that one. >> So at the Harvard Law School, there is a quote that says the law is the wise restraints that keep you free. It's the opposite of what secular culture will tell you. It's actually what you don't do that will actually keep you more free. And especially in today's culture, which is maybe you shouldn't take that substance. Maybe you shouldn't go out with those friends. Maybe you shouldn't all of a sudden be promiscuous in your relationships. We need to actually tell young people to put handcuffs and restraints on their moral behavior and that will give them true freedom. That's what the decalogue is all about. If you really think about it, a lot of it is telling people what not to do. Don't murder. Don't lie. There are some positive commandments, but some of them are actually telling you not to do certain things. >> So, in other words, when you when people talk about commandments and what the Bible says, it's actually I think about this. My my my brother Carl went on a building site with my dad. My dad worked with Exxon, which was Standard Oil back in the day. And my dad foolishly took my brother to the uh to a roof on a gas station where he was uh he was doing some construction for Exon E Exo back then. And my brother was walking off the ledge of the building and my father couldn't run to him in time. He's like, imagine this. My dad take a 2-year-old up to a roof anyway. So he's he's walking towards the edge of the roof and my father yells, "Carl, stop." And he froze because my dad was a World War II vet and he always commanded us with his voice when we grew up so he didn't have to spank us a lot. And it was pure training that told my brother, "Stop." You don't have to understand why. You have to know that this is a prohibition for your own survival. That's right. What God says in the Bible are the boundaries to save you from pain, not to keep you from pleasure. That's right. So, if you have the self-discipline to pay the price, to go to school, to finish, to not get pregnant, to get a job, e even if even if uh for young women that are out there, if you don't if you want to date a winner and marry someone that's going somewhere, what kind of advice would you give? I heard you were giving advice the other day. >> Oh, I'd give all sorts of advice. >> Okay. And you would say, "What kind of guy you looking for? A guy with a job?" Well, hopefully with direction, responsibility, purpose, ethics, integrity, and is willing to defend the good and defend you. >> The boundaries actually produce prosperity. That's the point. Boundaries produce prosperity. So, um I'm I'm wondering about the economics of this. I know we got a we have an older audience here. I got a lot of business people in my environment here, but man, we have really lost even the argument on corporations. And you have a certain quote here somewhere. I'm going to find it here. Uh there's a difference between corporation or what what is the distinction you make between capital or corporation >> capitalism and corporatism. >> Talk to me about that. >> Well, I I think that in some ways the conservative movement lost its way when we started worshiping corporations for corporation's sake. I'm a free market guy. I love entrepreneurship. I love people starting something from nothing. I value private property rights. In fact, I think private property is directly linked with freedom. And I think that's what separates us a lot from the political socialist left. With that being said, I don't necessarily think it's a good thing that Amazon is growing at the rate it's growing. I don't think it's a good thing that they're basically Democrat super PAC package redistribution centers that are able to kind of set up shop here right outside of, you know, Fountain Hills, Texas and say, you know what, we're now going to run the local government. We're now going to run because we're the number one job producer. If you don't have transgender stuff, as we like it in school boards, then we're going to shut down the plant if you don't. So all of a sudden what you have here is this cultural invasion disguised in cloak as job creation. Not to mention the 40% of small businesses that shut down. So here's what's happened is we de-industrialized Main Street. We brought in all these cheap products from China and we replaced it with an ability to quickly deliver those products to you and those places are now in the new job centers and they take hyperaggressive secular stances on issues of life, on issues of gender, on issues of identity. And so then they use that against us as ways to implement every piece of the agenda that we complain about. >> Oh, it's maddening. And I don't even want to get involved with this, but you know, like China, for those of you that are tracking with this stuff, China has their first meeting with Blinken discussing American politics. What do they do? They quote CNN fake news about American systemic racism and throw it back in our face and say, "Hey, here's what you guys are dealing with, so don't lecture us about ethics." >> So we we furnish them the sword that they cut our head off with. So, but but I want to go back to this idea here with corporations because Victor Hansen made an interesting point the other night. He said the retreat zone for conservatives historically would be the military uh and it would be corporations because it used to be that Wall Street would be identified with Republicans and Democrats with unions. Now it's now something's reversed. Donald Trump started representing the middle class and the working class against the big elites. And the elites all closed rank to destroy Donald Trump. >> And it's kind of a war on bigness and things that don't matter. That's kind of the things we don't like anymore. We don't like things that are massive for massive sake. And we don't like things that exist without a pure mission statement. So the kind of the conservative movement sort of stands for families and churches and protecting individual rights. I'll fight with that group. I like that group. I don't want to support Goldman Sachs. Like what is the end point for miss Goldman Sachs? Success for Goldman Sachs is that everyone buys their cheap products and they make a bunch of money. Exactly. >> Again, I like markets. I I think it's the best way to serve human beings. >> It gets to be complicated, doesn't it? Because >> but life is not something that I think we can ever resort to abstractions. And I that's my other complaint of conservatives is that oh, we must defend free markets for free market sake. I think there's some really good I think there's some really healthy balance. >> What do you think about social media? They're like, "Where do you think >> Oh, I think we should break up these companies." >> Oh, wait. That's not very free market now. >> Of course not. >> But they don't like free markets either. >> Oh, tell me about that. What? >> Well, if you think of what Google wants, Google wants a total monopoly. They don't actually believe in the market. They don't want competition. And I think that we should be very clear of why do we like free markets? We want them for human flourishing. And I like limited government because I like limited power. That's why I like limited Google because they have too much power. So the common denominator is we don't want a small group of people to have too much power. >> And when they use that power for evil, then we should totally stand up against. >> You know, the Ecclesiastes says the old the Jewish proverb that there's nothing new under the sun, Charlie. And I'm thinking right now that Teddy Roosevelt went up against Rockefeller and went up against Carnegie and he busted up the big oligarchs back then. I think America wants that right now. Uh and and and I think that there's a there's a uh a moment we could seize in the revolutionary times that we're in. You know, Lennon, I just read yesterday that it was in the chaos of what was happening in Russia that he saw an opportunity with like a hundred people to get into Russia. He had to figure out how to get there because he wasn't welcome. >> There's an interesting backstory to that. >> Okay. Yes. Got two minutes. I want to hear it though. >> I want to do Teddy Roosevelt and Lennon because they're actually tied together, believe it or not. No, he there is a theory that's now been proven by many historians. Not everyone agrees with this that he was actually sent on the train from German prison to Russia to break the Eastern block of the war which ended World War I. >> Well, that's a thought that I didn't get from John Kenneth Galbreth when I was reading his account. >> No, but anyway, there's there's there's a lot of historians that now agree that because Lenin was in German prison for being a communist revolutionary and then he was released from prison and they were like, "We need you to soften the Eastern block. We need you to soften the Eastern line by revolutionizing Russia." And little did they know it actually worked in 1972. >> It worked. lest we lose the point that I'm trying to make here. No, no, no. I love that. So, we geek out when we talk. I know that. But I want to make the point for you people out there. Listen, >> it's in times of chaos and times of revolution that a wellorganized minority can carve their way through the chaos and actually create something revolutionary and powerful. >> Charlie Kirk is heading that kind of a movement. He's heading that kind of energy. You can follow him in his blog. You can follow him in his radio. You can get involved with this faith initiative. Is there anything we didn't cover that they can get connected with yet? >> No, I mean just stand. >> Can they contribute? How do they contribute? >> If they want to tpusa.com, but there's too people are always asking for money. If you guys feel compelled to support us, do that. That's not why I'm here. I just want to spread good ideas and people. >> What a nice guy. What a nice guy. If you feel like doing if you feel I think they should do it. You got a book? You got a book? >> We have a couple books. I got another one coming out called The College Scam Working Title. >> Get right to the point. I I like how you're always winning friends and influencing people, Charlie. That's the thing. >> That would truly be the Dale Carnegi. >> Keep praying for Charlie Kirk. He really really really needs it. >> Amen. >> Did you enjoy this latest episode? Please remember to share it with your friends because the more knowledge you have, the better equipped you are to navigate the world.
