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Nick Fuentes and Hunter Biden Find Common Ground on Trump, Israel, and America's Future
Nick Fuentes and Hunter Biden sit down for an unexpected conversation about Trump's broken promises, the Israel lobby's grip on American politics, and the real reasons young people feel left behind. Despite coming from opposite ends of the political spectrum, they discover shared concerns about oligarchic control, the dangers of AI concentration, and the collapse of American community. What emerges is a raw discussion about edge-lording versus genuine dialogue, the weaponization of social media platforms, and whether America can survive its current power structures. Both men, who've been relentlessly attacked by media and experienced deplatforming, offer surprising takes on what needs to change.
An Unlikely Conversation
Nick Fuentes agreed to sit down for an interview to clear up what he sees as misrepresentations about who he is. Known primarily through a lens of controversy, Fuentes wanted an opportunity to present himself beyond the "white supremacist Nazi" label that follows him. The conversation partner? Hunter Biden, creating one of the more unexpected political dialogues in recent memory.
Both men share something unusual: they've been targeted, deplatformed, and had their lives picked apart by strangers. Hunter had his laptop contents turned into public property for years, while Nick has been doxed, swatted, and had his DMs leaked repeatedly. Different politics, same nightmare of having personal information treated as public property.
The Edge Lord Defense
When confronted about past statements - including Holocaust jokes and the infamous "cookies in the oven" comment about Jews - Fuentes acknowledged the provocative nature of his earlier rhetoric. He characterized it as "edge lording," explaining that his generation grew up in an environment where saying anything remotely controversial could trigger massive backlash.
"When you're 20, you're just like a maniac," Fuentes explained, suggesting his approach has evolved as he's matured. He now sees that particular style of provocation as "tired" and "not that funny anymore" - not because of pressure to moderate, but because it's become so commonplace it's lost its power.
Hunter challenged this directly, particularly regarding the Holocaust jokes: "It hurts. When you compare my wife's family to cookies going to an oven, it hurts." He pushed Fuentes to understand that regardless of intent, such statements cause real pain rooted in generational trauma spanning 2,000 years of Jewish history.
Trump: The Great Disappointment
Both men expressed disillusionment with Donald Trump, though from different starting points. Fuentes, who initially supported Trump in 2016, explained the appeal: "Trump said in 16, 'It's just me and my son and my wife. We don't have any donors. We don't have any special interest. We're going to put America first.'"
That message resonated with a right-wing base frustrated by perceived losses under John McCain and Mitt Romney. But Fuentes argues Trump's promises proved to be "vaporware" - no wall built, illegal immigration high until 2019, and ultimately taking money from the very interests he claimed to oppose.
Hunter's critique focused on Trump's fundamental character: "There's no ideological core to Donald Trump. Everything's transactional." He pointed to the stark contrast between Trump privately praising Joe Biden's work during the transition, then publicly blaming him for everything six times a day once in office.
The corruption angle particularly concerned both men. Hunter noted: "Don Jr. got the largest loan ever given by the Department of Defense." Fuentes added: "Vance owes his entire political career to Peter Thiel." Both see Trump's administration as captured by Silicon Valley oligarchs, the Israel lobby, and Wall Street.
The Israel Question
October 7th and its aftermath became a focal point of agreement. Fuentes argued it "highlighted how captured the right-wing is by Israel," pointing out the hypocrisy of "America First, but not with Israel. No new wars except for with Iran."
Hunter emphasized the importance of separating criticism of Netanyahu's government from anti-Semitism: "65% of American Jews disagree with the approach that the Israeli government has right now." He challenged Fuentes to understand that conflating Jews, Zionism, and Israel delegitimizes legitimate political criticism.
Fuentes pushed back slightly, arguing the issue extends beyond Netanyahu to figures like Larry Ellison - "not Israeli, not even a religious Jew, but ethnically Jewish" - who mobilize resources to benefit Israel. Both agreed, however, that unelected figures like Jared Kushner wielding enormous power over Middle East policy while building a $6 billion private equity fund represents a fundamental problem.
Community Collapse and Digital Isolation
A surprising area of agreement emerged around what one participant called "community collapse." Before COVID, 76% of Americans said they were part of an in-person community that gave them value. After COVID, that number dropped to 19%.
Fuentes described the modern alienation: "People wake up in their house, get in their car by themselves, drive to work by themselves, go home, have a beer, watch Netflix until they go to bed." He sees college as an extension of high school precisely because it provides community - the quad, constant interaction, status, reputation.
Both agreed this isolation drives political extremism. When people feel they have no seat at the table, no way to express grievances, they explore options outside democratic processes. The 2021 deplatforming of Trump and millions of his supporters created exactly this dynamic, pushing people toward platforms like Parler, Gab, and Rumble where "Twitter now resembles 4chan."
The Data Broker Surveillance State
The conversation touched on a less discussed aspect of modern life: over 420 companies called data brokers collect and sell personal information - home addresses, phone numbers, relatives, income brackets. When these systems fail, as happened in October when 70,000 people had government IDs exposed in one day, the consequences can be devastating.
This connects to both men's experiences. Every spam call, every scam, every ex or estranged family member who can find your address for $20 on a people search site - all powered by legal data broker operations. The infrastructure that enabled their personal information to become public property affects everyone, just at different scales.
The AI Threat
Perhaps the most alarming area of agreement concerned artificial intelligence. Fuentes warned: "Whichever firm is the one to develop artificial super intelligence, that could confer dictatorial-like powers upon the CEO of that company."
Hunter expanded on this: "The greatest leap in human evolution is going to happen within our lifetimes. Everything that we think about the way in which we exist in the world completely changes." He emphasized that all AI development builds on collective human knowledge - "that's what they're stealing from us and putting into the hands of literally a handful of people."
Both argued that any AI developed should be communal, with benefits and profits shared rather than concentrated in the hands of Sam Altman, Dario Amodei, or other tech CEOs racing toward artificial general intelligence with what Fuentes called "reckless and sloppy" Pentagon backing.
Class vs. Race
Throughout the conversation, Hunter challenged Fuentes' tendency to frame problems in racial or ethnic terms rather than economic ones. When Fuentes pointed to crime in Chicago and said "we know who's doing the crime," Hunter pushed back: "The top 10 poorest red states in the country and their crime rates are 10 times what many urban centers are."
The fundamental disagreement centered on causation. Fuentes sees demographic and cultural factors as primary; Hunter sees economic disenfranchisement and oligarchic control as the root. On healthcare, for instance, Hunter asked: "Don't you think there should be a single-payer system?" Fuentes agreed on universal catastrophic coverage but stopped short of full Medicare for All.
Regarding figures like Mondaire Jones, whom Fuentes criticized for being "too divisive" by focusing on "dirt-streaked hands against the billionaires," Hunter saw someone actually delivering results by targeting the oligarchy. The disagreement highlighted their different frameworks: Fuentes worried about cultural markers, Hunter about class power.
Cancel Culture: Left and Right
Fuentes made a point many miss: "I really got cancelled by the right and the left." In 2016, while establishment figures worried about white nationalist rhetoric, it was Ben Shapiro and the DailyWire+ who first moved against him, not progressive outlets.
The cancellation dynamics revealed interesting patterns. Between 2017-2021, Fuentes argues, "cancel culture was so in overdrive, any joke, any edge lording, anything like that, they would clip it, post it, and they wanted me to be the villain." He sees this pressure as pushing people toward more extreme positions, not less.
Hunter experienced similar treatment from a different angle - debanked before being charged with anything, losing every bank account, waiting nine months to get financial services again. Both men understand how platform control and financial system access function as tools of political power beyond traditional censorship.
On Office and Authenticity
Neither man plans to run for office. Hunter wants to reach "a million people in addiction" by breaking the cycle of shame around the topic. Fuentes sees his role as moving the Overton window - being "first to the punch and maybe considered a bad person or evil in order to promote your view." That doesn't work within electoral politics, where authenticity often takes a back seat to palatability.
Both expressed hope for 2028, seeing potential for a "clean reset" with competitive primaries on both sides. Fuentes noted frustration exists across the spectrum - "DSA progressive types are winning" Democratic primaries just as MAGA types win Republican ones, suggesting establishment dissatisfaction isn't limited to one party.
Finding Common Ground
The conversation concluded with an unexpected moment. Hunter: "I hope you see the humanity in me, so when you talk in the future, take that into consideration. And what I'll do is see the humanity in you."
Fuentes agreed: "We both believe in America. We both want the country to succeed. Just because I'm not necessarily nice all the time doesn't mean I'm hateful. Maybe that's where we can come together - we disagree on fundamental issues, even get heated, but we do ultimately want the best for each other."
It was a striking end to a conversation that ranged from Holocaust jokes to AI existential risk, from Chicago crime statistics to data broker surveillance. Two men from opposite political universes, both cancelled and targeted in different ways, found agreement on oligarchic capture, the need for genuine community, and the dangers of concentrated technological power.
Whether this represents a new model for political discourse or simply an interesting anomaly remains to be seen. But it demonstrated that even across seemingly unbridgeable divides, conversations can happen when both parties commit to seeing each other's humanity.
Video Transcript
You said you want to ask me why are you
a Nazi? Inclusion has been our greatest
strength. Diversity has been our
greatest strength. White people do feel
like we are being boxed [music] out.
>> A 26-year-old white kid doesn't feel
like he has access because he's been
cancelled and the problem is black
people.
>> I didn't say the problem's black people.
>> Well, you just did, Nick. You just said
>> the problem is crime, and we know who's
doing the crime in Chicago.
>> Do you get what I'm saying? Yes. About
the Holocaust things.
>> Oh. Uh, about that we get to say
whatever we want on the internet. We get
to deny the Holocaust. As far as Jews
are concerned in general, I think that
everybody in the country should be
treated with dignity and respect and
have their civil rights.
>> Like, what do you think about somebody
like Manny?
>> Personally, I don't like him. Like, for
example, on Fourth of July when he takes
the opportunity to sit there with, let's
be honest, not a single white person.
>> What about Donald Trump? There's
no ideological core to Donald Trump.
>> No, I agree with you.
>> Don Jr. got the largest loan ever given
by the Department of Defense.
>> Vance owes his entire political career
to Peter Teal. Whichever firm is the one
to develop ASI that could confer
dictatorial like powers upon the CEO of
that company.
>> Everything that we think about the way
in which we exist in the world
completely changes
>> increasingly with Uber, Airbnb, banking
apps. You can't live your life without
the tech platform.
>> Everything that AI is built on is ours.
That's what they're stealing from us. I
want to find common ground of how much
of a Donald Trump is. We can
get to we can get there. Okay.
the the kind of first question that I
had whenever I caught wind that you
wanted to do an interview like this is,
you know, why now? What made you want to
sit down for this kind of interview?
>> Well, I think it's an interesting
conversation uh to have all of us here
and uh you know, I think it's a moment
in our country when there's a lot of
realignment. You know, I think that uh
people recognize especially in the past
couple of years, I'm like a
non-conventional
critic maybe of what's happening and um
so I think it'll be an interesting
productive conversation. I think it'll
be different. But I mean specifically
because we we kind of share a publicist.
I heard that you wanted to uh kind of
>> Okay. We we have a publicist that you
hit up and you said that you wanted to
talk to someone who would give you kind
of a fair shot to like clear up some
things and maybe some misconceptions
about you and the things you believe.
>> Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I think that um
you know I'm somebody who I think like
you actually maybe we have this in
common is kind of pigeonholed in a
certain way for things that we've done
in the past or things that we've said.
>> I'm a crackhead [laughter]
>> but I'm racist. Right. I got I got
pigeon hole there. Mine is true. Yeah.
>> Yeah. My mind's a little true. Maybe a
little. No. Um but yeah. So I I think
it'd be good to clear up some of the
misrepresentations and uh and put out
something accurate.
>> So what do you think is the most
misrepresented thing about you?
>> Well, I think really the whole image
everybody has about me. Um you know,
when you mentioned me, I think on a
recent show, you said you want to ask me
why are you a Nazi? And that's how
everybody knows me. Everybody thinks of
me as white supremacist Nazi. And I
don't think that's really true at all. I
think that we definitely have different
values. I mean, you're more from the
left. I'm more from the right. But I I
don't think I'm a hater. I'm not a
hateful person.
>> It is Hitler Friday.
Hy Hitler. All my Nazis. Morgan was
>> Hitler was very cool.
>> Yes, I do.
>> One of them.
>> And I'm tired of pretending he's not.
>> So, what's the thing about I guess
traditional Nazism that you think you
disagree with the most?
>> Well, it's a it's a non-Christian
ideology. So, I mean, look, I believe
that race is real, as the Nazis did, but
I don't think it utterly defines a
person as a Christian. I think we're all
created beings. I do believe there's
such a thing as a universal human
community. And so, I think it's a cruel
ideology. I've said this on my show, by
the way, but I mean, that would maybe be
the fundamental.
>> Did you always feel that way?
>> Always. Yeah, absolutely.
>> So, even whenever you were younger and
stuff,
>> I did. I did, but um you know, you got
to recognize times have changed. 10
years ago, we had a totally different
political world. The regulation and
policing of speech, you know, what you
would call wokeness, I think, was at an
all-time high when I got started as a
very young man.
>> What you would call wokeness.
>> Yes.
>> Exactly.
>> Well, and I think I I mean, would you
not say there were some excesses maybe
in those days?
>> Yeah. You know, I in those days I I
wasn't doing too well, so I wasn't
paying much attention. Anyway, I I would
love to hear and I'm not asking you to
like retract everything that you've ever
said and all that, you know, or
anything, but I said that I would love
to talk to you because number one, I I I
told you this is that I think you're
really smart and I think that with that
comes in a a a real responsibility
>> and um you have an audience and I have a
friend whose son is my daughter's age,
you know, maybe 28, you know, your age
and and he's really smart and he is a
big fan of yours. And so by virtue of
the relationship, I got to learn what it
is that he why he is a fan of yours. And
none of it has to do with I would hope
you agree like really egregious things
that you've said in the past about the
Holocaust or about you know,
>> do the Jews ever talk about the 100
million whites that died in World War II
or do they just and moan about the
so-called 6 million Jews that died? And
so it's just nice to poke holes in it
and say it's not 6 million.
>> 6 million. I don't think so.
>> And I don't even know. I I think I've
heard you since kind of resin a lot of
that.
>> You can see that 6 million Jews died in
the Holocaust.
>> Possibly more. Possibly. You know, we're
discovering all the time. So it could
maybe even be more than that.
>> But what he agrees with is kind of the
anger. The anger about the situation
that particularly your generation finds
yourself in. I know that to be real. Um,
and I think that there, you know, maybe
my reasons for recognizing that anger is
being legitimate, um, and my targets are
different than yours. I just wanted to
hear from you. When you say you're
cancelled, you're cancelled by the right
in 2016.
>> Yes. Yes. I almost felt like in in
preparing to meet you now is that your
reaction to that was to just dig deeper
and deeper into um kind of the the
outsider kind of radical say anything
for the purpose of generating um you
know the attention to build an audience.
Is that true? And it's not an
accusation. I I really mean it. I want
this to be a conversation as much as
possible. I mean, that's there's
certainly some truth to that, but I
think that might be overstating it a
little bit because I really got
cancelled by the right and the left.
>> Yeah.
>> And back in those days in 2017, you had
these far-left journalists, the
Huffington Post, right-wing watch, ADL,
SPLC, and I really believe they were on
a mission to find extremist rhetoric,
the white nationalist, neo-Nazi,
boogeyman, all that kind of stuff. And
they would look at someone like myself,
18, and if I was being serious or
joking, things taken out of context,
they would clip it, post it, and they
wanted me to be the villain. And I think
they wanted a lot of people to be the
villain. I think the left in a way kind
of created this climate where I think
they pushed a lot of people farther to
the right.
>> By the way, that that very well may be
true, but you gave him a lot of
ammunition.
>> That's true. You know, I mean, I I I
hope that those some of those things
that you said in the past are not things
that you believed in and that are um you
meant just to engender like a like a a
really radical kind of response. I mean,
is that true or
>> Well, you know, again, I think that back
in those days, you could not say
anything in 2017, 2018, cancel culture
was so in overdrive, any joke, any edge
lording, anything like that. They would,
first of all, there was no sense of
humor.
>> I'm so old. I don't even
>> Okay, to break it down for you. So, the
dawn of wokeness, as it's known today, I
think was in like the post Trump era.
After Trump won the election in 2016,
there was a big movement to deplatform
and kind of push away those who I guess
the left feel like had galvanized them
into the presidency. So there was this
big idea that if you push people off
mainstream social media platforms, they
would go away. Now we know through
Trump's re-election that's not even
true. But at the time that was the
mantra, problematic viewpoints needed to
be silenced, tucked away somewhere, and
they would just sort of die in
isolation. So I think that that was the
climate where you first got started 2017
that that time period was like crucial
for getting people off mainstream
platforms. Is that correct?
>> Yeah. And and I would say that you you
got to get into the psychology of those
days. It felt like anybody that wasn't
on board with the most progressive
agenda had no options. There was just no
alternative. It was going to be
progressive, liberal, feminist, BLM, all
that kind of stuff. And if you were to
the right of John McCain, you're no
platformed, censored, banned from all
the platforms. you're fired from your
job, you're ostracized socially. And I
think what happened really in 2021 when
Trump got banned from the platforms is
it felt like 70 million people got
cancelled, 70 million people that voted
for Trump or you know 60 70 million
people, we were all felt like, oh, so if
Trump is out of politics and we're all
banned from the platforms, then how is
there any redress for our grievances? Do
we just have to shut up and get with the
program and we're all going to be
progressive? And I think that that drove
people to a far more radical place where
people said, "Well, what really is a
solution? We can't talk. We can't
express ourselves. We can't participate
in the process or run for office." And
uh and I was one of the people saying
that's exactly what's going to happen.
It's going to drive people to extremism.
If you don't talk, if people don't feel
like they have a seat at the table and
infranchisement, I think then they uh
they start exploring options outside the
system, outside of the political
process, the democratic process. So I
think it's self-inflicted in many ways.
So you feel like after the
mastplatforming in 2021 whenever people
on the right got pushed to platforms
like Parlor, Gab, Rumble, etc. the lack
of discourse and like the political
singularity of those platforms created
more extremism.
>> Absolutely. Absolutely. Because look,
you take Trump off of Twitter, Facebook,
Instagram, YouTube, and I predicted this
in 21. I said, "Watch. You're going to
see alternative social media rise
because some venture capitalist is going
to see there's a huge market of 70
million people that are going to follow
Trump because Trump is no platform." And
that's exactly what happened. Rumble
blew up. Elon bought Twitter. And what
happened when you had total free speech
on these platforms? Well, Twitter now
resembles 4chan. And now, you know,
there's no gatekeepers. And I think it
did push people in a radical direction.
And honestly, people are even blowing
past me. Now there's like mainstream
normie types that are even blowing past
me in terms of how radical they are.
People start saying things like there's
no political solution. There's going to
be a civil war. We need a revolution.
And I think that's because the message
from the left was you're crushed. You
have no options. You can't win. There's
no alternative. Trump is going to be
indicted and charged and can't run. You
can't be on Twitter. You can't have a
job. And so people started to say,
"Okay, well, you know, we still exist.
We're still here. We still have these
concerns. what do we do now? And then
people start to say, "Well, we need a
revolution." And I'm one of the only
people saying, "No, we should still
engage in the process and and talk with
each other." And it's not all one-sided.
I think there's problems on the left and
the right, but I certainly think it
takes two to tangle.
>> Okay, so there we agree. I think that
there are problems on the left and the
right, and I don't disagree with with
some of the things that that you just
said. I guess I just came to a a
different conclusion that there are some
things that people should be
deplatformed for. Not that they can't
say it where they want to say it, but I
think that it's a right of anybody.
>> Okay, top three things. What do you
think?
>> There's a difference between being able
to say that you're proud of your white
heritage and also being just a flatout
racist. I think that there's a
difference between saying you're proud
of your Christian heritage and the white
culture from what you come from and
Nazis or that you adopt the Nazism as a
legitimate ideology. I think that
there's a difference between saying that
you disagree with the United States
policy as it relates to Israel and
saying that the Holocaust didn't exist.
>> I was like, "Mom, dad, Hitler was
awesome. Hitler was right [laughter] and
the Holocaust didn't happen." And my
parents were like, "We cannot believe."
>> Those are my th those would be top three
things in my mind. I know that you
believe that some people took you out of
context and I do I do agree. Look, I'm
both the right and the left. There are
these gatekeepers 100%. And look at me.
The mainstream press just destroyed me
for seven years without any real kind of
reflection about what they were doing. I
do think that, you know, some of those
things are legitimate reasons to say,
uh, you know, I we don't want you on our
um, you know, on our commercial
platform. Would you agree with that? I
mean, you just said, for instance,
people calling for a um like an armed
revolution,
>> like people calling for actual violence.
You're opposed to
>> Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I'm against
violence and I and I do think those are
one of the legitimate things that should
be taken from the platform. You know,
there's a lot of the stuff on social
media I don't agree with. But again, you
know, what started to happen is there
was this like editorial censorship where
certain ideas were banned and and they
just it was such a broad brush and also
totally opaque and ad hoc. You'd be on
YouTube like I was for example, they
banned me for life and didn't even give
me a reason. Not a specific quote, not a
specific infraction. And so you you
don't know what the rules are. You don't
know what the process is. they just take
you down. And um especially now when
everything is digital, that's not just
the social platforms, it's the other
ones like Uber, Airbnb, whatever. It
feels like you're being denied almost
something like a civil right the social
platforms are the modern public square.
Increasingly with Uber, Airbnb, the
banking apps, you can't live your life
without the tech platforms. And it felt
like if you just simply had the wrong
opinions or you were the wrong kind of
person, you were being deprived of like
a basic civil right or being able to
participate in society. So, you know,
and I think maybe that's an area of
collaboration where we recognize maybe
it is a civil right to use the digital
platforms, but here are the rules.
Here's what you can say, here's what you
can't say. Here's the process. Maybe
there's a reconciliation mechanism, but
I mean, the censorship was just out of
control. I don't think anyone disagrees
there's a reasonable limit, though.
>> Yeah. No, I I guess what I'm saying is
that that I don't see that as a result
of left-wing or right-wing ideology. I I
I view that kind of level of
deplatforming. Look, look, I was
debanked. I was debanked before I was
ever even charged with anything. I lost
every bank account. Took me you know 9
months once they um you know the Trump
administration uh you know said that
they were starting an investigation into
me to be able to actually get a bank
account again. And I still I don't want
to tell you the bank because tomorrow
they may debank me again. But my point
is is that those people are incredibly
identifiable. I always I keep like I've
been talking and going around and I say
things like I don't think we are nearly
as divided as they're telling us we are
because I do believe that there is there
are an identifiable group of people that
are responsible for an enormous amount
of the discord and division because they
make money off of it. I think that these
social media companies that are
controlled by what three, four, five,
you know, individuals have made clear
that they only care about one thing.
They only care about how much money they
can produce for themselves and, you
know, the people that hold stocks in
their company. Even to the degree where
we know for certain that uh they're
driving teenage girls to the highest
levels of suicide by a factor like
exponential factors directly related to
the content that they're being pushed.
and they won't do anything about it.
>> Right.
>> And so to the same degree, I think they,
you know, uh, a lot of what you call
wokeness was a maybe an illegitimate but
a, uh, a financial decision based on on
a lot of these
>> corporate scoff maybe.
>> Corporate scoff.
>> Thank you.
>> I mean, by the way, exactly. You know, I
mean,
>> I just wanted to back up real quick. So,
you talked about certain people going
too far. About two and a half months
ago, I visited a whites only community
in Hardy, Arkansas. And I don't know
why. I guess coming from like a more
like leftwing place. I'm from Seattle. I
kind of assume there was like a united
front on the right for some reason. So
I'm out there. I'm chilling with these
dudes. They're like sword fighting,
having barbecues, it was I mean overall
it was a good time for them. I had a
hard time connecting with them cuz I
don't agree with them. But it's all
good. I was having fun for a couple days
and then like right as I was there I
guess you had hit them up on X or
something and said like, "Hey, I don't
want to associate with you guys." What
happened there?
>> Well, that was really more of a personal
disagreement with the guy that founded
it. Yeah. But I I do think it's an
interesting project and it's interesting
that that got so much push back, this
whites only community because you know
what, if you go to a lot of these
different neighborhoods in major cities,
there are ethnic enclaves and it's not
like there's an explicit rule that you
have to be a certain ethnicity, but we
all know in Chicago and New York and LA,
you got certain neighborhoods where it
is 80 90% one ethnicity. And I think
they I think there's a lot of white
people that say we kind of want
something similar. I don't think there's
anything [laughter]
Well, okay, let's back up. If you want
to talk about the histories of, you
know, New York and Chicago, I feel like
that was also a conscious decision that
was made like after blacks only. It's in
Cababrini Green where Mayor Daly made
everybody that was black live in the
Cababrini Green. I mean, it's not that
wasn't by choice. It's not by choice
that these ethnic enclaves are 80 or 90%
whatever that ethnicity is. It's because
that's the only place in which they had
an opportunity to live unbothered or
where they were told that they had to
live because of the historical fact that
they could not move into other
neighborhoods. You could not move into
parts of uh south Chicago without, you
know, being stoned,
>> right?
>> Literally. Right. And so like that. So
it's not as if those ethnic enclaves are
there by choice, you know? And so that
>> also ethnic enclaves do exist for like
specific variations of different
Europeans like you know there is like
places that are chocolate like South
Philly is full of Italians you know
there's a little Italy and there's a
little Korean
>> I think the issue what I always like
that what confused me the most about the
whites only community is like there's
just so many different kinds of white
people in America you know so like to
establish a unified white culture with a
place so diverse and full of like
different regional flavors just kind of
felt confusing to me cuz it could mean a
different thing depending on what part
of the country or what European enclave
you originated from like where Irish
people from the Philly area. Can you
compare that to like, you know, surfers
in San Diego or even like, you know,
Italian-Americans in Staten Island? I
don't know. Everything just feels so
different. So, when I got there, I was
trying to identify what they meant by
white culture. It wasn't really based on
shared like cultural practices, but more
the exclusion of people who weren't
white. So, they weren't like stoked on
being European necessarily. They were
more just like, oh, we're here because
those people aren't here. So, it just
kind of felt more negative than
constructive.
>> Yeah. I mean, like I said, I'm not
really involved with that project in
particular. But I think that look, I
mean, you talk about the anger that's
out there and the frustration, and I
think part of the frustration, let's be
honest, is that white people do feel
like we are being boxed out in major
cities in the country. And it feels
like, look, there's a little Haiti and
there's these various ethnic enclaves
where you get that local culture and
they do their, you know, cultural
festivals and that sort of thing. And
white people feel like they're being
pushed out and they want a space where
things are familiar. I feel the same way
about the Italian festival that happens
in every city.
>> Well, here's a good example. So,
>> or St. Patrick's Day.
>> Well, you know, there's no Irish
neighborhood in Chicago, Little Italy.
Sure, there is.
>> I mean, there's some remnant in
Bridgeport. It's it's important to note
that like and I'm not trying to get into
like a shouting match here, but like you
know as as a family who did coming from
a family who did leave Philadelphia in
the '60s because of black
[clears throat] migration from the south
after the civil rights act was passed,
there was a sort of like mass flight of
white people into the suburbs. And that
kind of led to a homogenization of
different cultures cuz they they rushed
so fast to build these like identical
strip mall suburbs that it was very hard
to maintain cultural bonds that made
different European and white
neighborhoods unique around like the
1950s and before. So, I feel like the
mass suburbanization is also a big
factor that led to those like cultural
bonds breaking.
>> Yeah. But why did that happen? I mean, a
lot of the suburbanization is because of
the race riots in the 1960s. People
moved out because of the violence. You
know, my grandfather was in the National
Guard in Chicago when after MLK got
assassinated, the whole west side burned
to the ground and people didn't want to
be around that anymore.
>> Why? Why were the riots?
>> MLK Jr. was assassinated.
>> Yeah. [laughter]
Yeah.
>> And so does that justify burning down
the city?
>> Justifies it. But it sure justifies an
enormous amount of the anger. The same
kind of anger that you feel about being
left out. The same kind of anger that
you're expressing right now about the
idea that you're culturally irrelevant,
that you don't have a place in society.
Imagine if you were a 26-year-old black
man in 1968 and saw your hero be
assassinated. And
>> I saw Trump get shot in the ear. And
>> did he? And I saw Charlie Kirk get shot
and I didn't see any cities get burned
down. It's funny how that works.
>> I think it's a very very very different
thing. I think it's
>> How is that different? Charlie Kirk got
shot in the neck.
>> Yeah.
>> And liberals celebrated all over social
media by Tyler Robinson.
>> Yeah. Who is what?
>> Who is some liberal guy?
>> He is.
>> Mhm.
>> But that
>> he's got a transgender boyfriend.
>> Does that makes him liberal because he's
transgender? Because he's gay.
>> Well, because he's got a transgender
boyfriend. Yeah, I think so.
>> It makes him liberal.
>> I think he was liberal. Yeah.
>> Okay. Well, he didn't come from a
liberal family. He didn't come from a
liberal enclave. He didn't come from a
liberal background. He's not a minority.
He was a Mormon, correct?
>> And grew up in a Mormon household. And
he went to a a largely Mormon college.
And he ended up committing an act of
violence according to the FBI and and
the the authorities in Utah that charged
him. How does that in any way compare to
what we're talking about? I'm not
justifying the violence that occurred
after the death of Martin Luther King.
>> But you're saying that that person, this
Tyler, whoever his name is, is was as
disenfranchised as the African-American
community in 1968 in in inner cities.
>> Well, the question is who we want to
live around.
>> I'm not living around blacks. Sorry. I
want white kids and I don't want my
white kids bringing home black people to
marry.
>> And in the 1960s, the west side burns
down. We don't want to live around that.
We don't want to live around a city when
that happened. That's not when the white
plague happened. It is a big response to
it. Absolutely. 100% not you make these
historical um uh connections that don't
exist. Part of it was potentially. But
before that, what mayor Daly did is made
Chicago the most segregated city in the
entire United States other than Boston.
when you would come from the south to
Chicago, African-Americans from the
south, blacks in the south coming to
Chicago would say that Chicago was twice
the level of segregation and racism that
occurred in the south. And so it wasn't
as if you're coming into a situation in
which you're feeling in any way
infranchised by the community and the
situation that you're in. and as many
people left simply because of the idea
that someone was black moving into their
neighborhood as the violence that
occurred after the assassination of
Martin Luther King. So the numbers
actually pre 1968 when King was shot you
had more people leave the city because
of the desegregation because of the 1964
Civil Rights Act than you did after the
um after the riots.
>> I think that's just not true. I think
that the race riots were a huge driver
of white flight to the suburbs. I think
it's just dishonest to say that's not
the case.
>> Okay. So, what's your point about all
this?
>> Well, we're talking about where people
want to live.
>> Yeah, I know. So, like what in in 2026?
>> Well, okay. How how about in 2020 when
Minneapolis burned to the ground? Or how
about in the summer of 2020 in Chicago?
>> Minneapolis didn't burn to the ground.
>> It didn't?
>> No. I mean, there
if you guys need a physical witness to
what happened in Minneapolis, there were
many structures that burned to the
ground. not the city, but there was, I
would say, between 40 to 50 buildings
off of Lake Street in the southside that
did burn to the ground, but the most of
the city was intact, but it was it was
quite an intense situation.
>> People don't want to live around that.
People don't want to live around that.
You know, in Chicago, it rolled on into
the summer and it wasn't, you know,
let's say the anger of the oppressed and
the disenfranchised.
>> They were looting. They were looting and
carjacking the criminals. Are you saying
that the problem with a 26-year-old
white kid living in um in in suburbia
outside of Chicago and his feeling of
being disenfranchised is because there
was looting and rioting in in
Minneapolis by black people and it's
black people that are doing it.
>> Yeah. I mean the problem with Austin
Metaf was that he got stabbed in the
neck at a track meet and the problem
with our city in Chicago is that the
magnificent mile is gone. Water tower
place is gone because of all the crime.
Nick, in the time of an entire
generation of of of African-Americans is
that they've been getting killed by cops
for decades. What are you talking about,
Nick?
>> Commit crime.
>> Listen, listen. It's not
>> Nick,
>> what?
>> That's not true. It's not true. Are you
saying the police brutality as it
relates and racism in in in the police
force in the way in which police treat
African-Americans, Nick, you could grow
up here like I did between Wilmington
and Philadelphia and if you were a black
dentist and you lived in Wilmington and
you commuted to Philadelphia, the
chances of you being pulled over by a
state trooper either Delaware or in
Pennsylvania are about 50 times that
would would be if if if it was a white
guy. 50 times. And so what you're trying
to tell me is that the problem in
America right now is that a 26-year-old
white kid who lives in suburban Chicago
doesn't feel like he has access because
he's been cancelled or he's been woke
and the problem is black people.
>> I didn't say the problem's black people.
>> Well, you just did, Nick. You just said
>> I said the problem is crime. And we know
who's doing the crime in Chicago. The
carjackings, shootings, teen takeovers.
We know why there's no business on the
Mag Mile anymore. And it's because they
steal cars. They drive them through
windows and listen, black people are
some of the biggest victims of the black
crime, but we're not allowed to talk
about it because of the racial
dimension.
>> Not allowed to talk about it. We're
talking about it right here. You have a
platform in which millions of people
listen to you.
>> I think [laughter]
well after after Elon had to buy Twitter
and open it up. It wasn't like that
before. I was banned from everything for
many years. So, no, you weren't allowed.
You're right. We can talk about it now,
but that's only cuz the good guys won.
>> Hey, hey, what's up, guys? There's
something I forgot to tell you about. We
also just launched our own streaming
platform called C5.now. We have five
films on there right now. Film number
one, The Art of Protest made by the
homies over at Indecci, who we
interviewed a few months back. Film two,
rat film by Theo Anthony, set in
Baltimore, investigates the lives and
times of the rodent population through
the eyes of the people who love the rats
of Baltimore, study the rats of
Baltimore, or [music] are paid to
execute and trap the rodents of Charm
City. Documentary number three, Starcash
by Haley Garagus. An amazing Wall Street
documentary that follows the lives of
[music] market predictors. That's right,
stock analysts who stare at the planets
to figure out what's going to happen
with the money. Documentary number four,
it's called Physician Heal Thyself by
director Asher Pen. A fascinating
lifelong profile featuring tons of
archival footage documenting a
physician, psychiatrist, philosopher,
sorcerer of the mind named Gabbor Mate.
very influential dude as far as
addiction and trauma and healing. He's
about as good as it gets. He's the top
dog in that [music] realm. So, check
that documentary out. Documentary number
five is my own. Had to put my own sauce
on there to get the train moving. It is
called Finding Orson. A 45minute
documentary that I shot over the course
of a year and a half [music] trying to
reunite a beloved friend and elderly
community member named Rick Shore with
[music] his lost parrot named Orson.
>> Maybe he's just too embarrassed to admit
that he doesn't want the the bird
anymore. So, those are the five films on
C5.now. A totally [music] independent
creator residual forward power to the
people documentary platform, not
gatekeep by Hollywood. And what's unique
about C5 now is that unlike the major
studios, we're not afraid to take a
risk. And of course, pay creators
fairly. [music]
The link is in the pin comment and
description box of this video. And most
importantly, it's not just a website.
It's an app on your phone and a smart TV
app. So, [music] get your popcorn, get
your remote, sit down. It's time to
learn. I'll see you guys soon.
>> You went from being banned on Twitter to
being on YouTube to creating an entire
show. I know you're not, but now you
have kick and now you have all of these
other things. You have an enormous
platform. I want to find common ground
of of how much of a a Donald
Trump is. We can get to We can get
there. [laughter] Okay. I don't what I
don't understand is how you didn't
recognize that in 2016 and how you
didn't recognize that in 2020 and how
you didn't recognize that in 2024
because Donald Trump has because Donald
Trump hasn't changed. Donald Trump
hasn't changed at all. Donald Trump has
been Donald Trump since he came out of
the womb of a woman that was a immigrant
to this country. And so what I want to
know though is that I don't know how we
get past this idea that the biggest
problem that you have that that with
with your personal situation and how you
extrapolate that to the situation of
other white kids that are your age that
feel disenfranchised that feel left out
that feel they don't have a a shot at
the American dream is because of black
and brown people of because of Mexicans
because of Venezuelans because of
Haitians because of it's always other
Nick with you. It seems to me and I've
listened to a lot of the stuff. It's
always them. We need to build a wall.
Where's the wall, Nick? He never built
the wall. Why'd you vote for him in
2020? Why'd you vote for him in 2024?
>> I didn't vote for him in
>> Well, okay. My point being is that
whenever you identify your problem as
being something that is other that you
can point to, that's a minority, that is
a group of people, that's the Jews, it's
the it's the I mean, before remember all
of us, you know, it was the Irish
Catholics. who were committing the
crime, who weren't allowed into bars,
who weren't allowed into because you
know why? Because they were dirty poor
non Europeans. They were Irish every
time. It's wrong. Every time history has
proven that that to be wrong in the
United States of America every time.
Inclusion has been our greatest
strength. Diversity has been our
greatest strength. And I hear you talk
about this idea of white culture. What
white culture you talking about,
man? What? Literally, what?
>> Shakespeare, Dante, Mozart. We're in
Philadelphia, the founding fathers.
Yeah,
>> that's that's your white man Christo.
Would you consider that part of our
white culture?
>> Sure.
>> Okay. Well, it was written by a black
man in France in the 1700s
>> in a millu of European civilization.
>> So what? Because you're picking out
you're picking out one example. It
really is.
>> I'm not just kidding one example.
>> That's Listen,
>> Nick. I'm not I really am not.
>> Hey guys, I think we're reaching what's
called a rock in a hard place. Let's
talk about Israel. [laughter]
>> Well, let me let me respond to this
because you're telling me I'm always
blaming the other.
>> No, no, Nick, for real. For real, here's
the thing is that the way that you talk
and throw out these historical facts,
which by the way aren't facts,
>> which ones aren't facts?
>> Well, as it relates to the uh the Civil
Rights Movement, 1968. And the reason
why we're on the problem that we're in
is because the Civil Rights Act had
passed in 1964, Dr. Martin Luther King
was killed and shot by a white racist,
white supremacist in 1968 on a balcony
of a motel. That's the root of our
trouble because an entire people that
have been disenfranchised and enslaved
for over 400 years.
>> We're sick of hearing about that though.
It's 2026.
>> You may be sick of hearing about it, but
you know what? They aren't. And I'll
tell you what, Nick, here's the other
thing. Get over it. It's America.
>> But Nick, you keep you can say stuff
like that, okay? Without having to say
it like that. And we look, this is
>> that's not how it started, though.
>> This is a legitimate argument, but it's
Nick.
>> Guys, Nick Hunter, what do you guys make
of the concept of community collapse?
Have you guys heard of this?
>> No.
>> So, it's got nothing to do with race,
got nothing to do with money, but this
is kind of a crazy stat. So, in 2019,
before CO, 76% of Americans said they
were a part of an in-person community
that gave them some kind of value. After
CO, and this year, it was 19%. So, I
think that politics and race aside, one
of the biggest issues is the collapse of
social bonds, third spaces, communities,
in-person engagement, which comes with
loneliness, more time online, and more
division. I understand. I feel like you
guys aren't going to agree. I want to
talk about what you guys think can be
done on an individual and community
level to stop people from hating each
other and to create more belonging and
engagement.
>> Well, number one, I think this h
>> okay for real
>> podcasting.
>> No, no, not podcasting. This discussion
for me to be able to sit down with
someone who I so vehemently disagree
with and find some kind of common
ground.
>> Guy at home. Guy at home who's watching
this on his phone just thinking, I wish
I could go outside. I don't know anyone.
>> Okay. Well, here's what I'm talking
about. It's all about connection. It is
all about actually connecting with
people. And I'm not talking about
digitally connecting with people
anonymously online. I'm talking about
actually going out and connecting with
people. And I don't I don't have an
answer to that. I don't any of us. We
are in an Look, man. I just think that
you are targeting the wrong problem,
Nick. I think that our biggest problem
right now doesn't have to do with a um
this cultural divide or racial divide or
religious divide or the idea that that
America is becoming less white or
culturally um uh relevant anymore. I
think our biggest problem is is
literally an oligarchy that is inflaming
every single division that we have. And
by the way, and they're out for you,
man, just as much as anybody else. those
platforms that we talk about that you're
not allowed to be on because Elon's out
on the platform. Elon doesn't give a
about anything other than one
thing. Money. Real quick,
>> money. His money.
>> I don't necessarily even agree with
that.
>> Okay. Well, you may not agree with that
because you don't want to piss off Elon
Musk.
>> Elon doesn't even like me, but I just
disagree.
>> You're talking about the oligarchy,
right? Like these billionaires, right?
Like the goal of corporate capture of
these industries is community collapse.
They are trying to engineer things to
make it antisocial. They want to
eliminate every single small business.
They want to make everyone a a single
person shopper, no car pooling, like to
be a lonely consumer who only buys
things for themselves online and doesn't
talk to anyone in real life. That's what
they want in real life. Like all this
data center like everything
they're doing is is in a way trying to
break up in person engagement. And I
feel like for you guys might be hard to
answer cuz both of you guys are what
they call like controversial public
figures. Like there's places that you
like in 2018 if you were to go to a dive
bar in let's say Popular Bluff,
Missouri, you would have been in danger.
You know what I mean? that time for you,
you were in danger physically in a
left-wing city. It's just just the
truth. So, I feel like you guys have
been deprived of the ability um to have
normal lives. You especially, you know,
but I mean, you in general, but I feel
like, you know, your controversies came
a little bit later in life for you. I
feel like you haven't even been able to
grow up as a normal person. Is that
accurate to say?
>> That's true. Well, and in terms of, you
know, building community back and
everything like that, you know, the data
says that really the loss of society is
the fact that we don't encounter people
anymore. For example, on your way to
work or, you know, in ways that are
unexpected. People wake up in their
house, which is separate from everybody
else. They get in their car by
themselves, drive to work by themselves,
you know, and then they meet with their
colleagues and everything, but then they
go right home, go home, have a beer,
watch Netflix until they go to bed. Next
day starts all over again. And um so you
know I think it has a lot to do with
maybe how we structure the cities. I
think honestly a big part of it there's
like this abundance mindset with
liberals. Liberals want to have
prosperity and everything like that. How
can you have that when the cities are
not safe? I think that one of the ways
for example if you want to have those
encounters that are unplanned or
spontaneous they're going to happen
maybe on the subway on the bus on your
way to work. People don't want to ride
the subway anymore. People don't want to
ride the bus. I just feel that if you
look at the data like right now 2026 I
think 2025 had the lowest homicide rate
of any year in America for like the past
40 years. I feel like if you compare
data from the '90s like the cities I get
what you're saying but the cities I have
noticed are a lot safer. They're also
you know becoming more expensive as
well. You're absolutely right and it's a
really it's what you're saying Nick is
impossible to refute, right? Because
everybody has an experience with
violence or um witnessing crime or
whether it's just in their local
newspaper or not is that I don't think
that that is in any way limited to only
urban environments. I take those the top
10 poorest red states in the country and
their crime rates are 10 times what many
urban centers are. So you'd be comparing
like West Virginia coal country
disenfranchised to like an urban
neighborhood.
>> Yeah. In terms of per capita crime, in
terms of per capita um murder, in terms
of per capita child sexual abuse. Yeah.
I think the things that people really
care about, you know, things like that
is their own personal safety. It is not
limited to African-American urban or
latino urban environments. I don't it's
not that it exists. Carjackings do
happen, but you know where they happen?
They happen in Bxie, Mississippi just as
much as they happen in Chicago.
>> I'm skeptical of that.
>> I mean, I just think the idea of like
safety, like safety at risk, crime has
been [laughter] I feel like media has
overblown the
>> Everybody's going to fact check both of
us on on this and I but I agree with you
is that but my point about it all of it
is though is that you can always point
to a reason, Nick. There's never been a
time in which there hasn't been crime in
major urban areas where you pack a lot
of people in. You're right though is
that the difference between us feeling
like each other were are neighbors and
that we can find some common ground is
the fact, you know, you can live in
existence now and at by the time you're
56 years old and never really have to
leave your house to make a living to,
you know, you don't go to the community
center anymore. And I don't know how to
fix that. And I certainly
>> it all connects back to politics, right?
Because community is like an essential
human need if not the most important
thing. So when you are deprived of that,
you're more likely to look for a radical
solution and be like everything's
broken. We need to try something really
out there. So you might embrace
something more reactionary on left or
right to be like this, you know, we
need something new. And so and I'm not
trying to draw this like male loneliness
like incel pipeline that the media tries
to do all the time, but do you see a
connection there between like people
being lonely and having less friends and
subcultural choice taking over community
value value systems or community
engagement and people just like driving
to the extreme?
>> 100%. And I think social dislocation is
probably the number one problem of our
times because you look at the young
people and you're right it is one of
those essential human needs is to
connect and have that sense of
familiarity to really to be seen to see
and to be seen and that's something
young people don't have and I think by
the way you look at the way young people
socialize and even the mentality I think
a lot of young people have this absolute
drive to go to college. Why? It's an
extension of high school and what do
high school and college have in common?
It's a community. You're in the quad.
you can see and be seen. There's sort of
like a status reputation. You're
constantly involved with other people.
And I think everybody, young people,
look at when they graduate from college
like falling off a cliff and now life is
over cuz now you just have your job, the
gym, and going back home and that's it.
And this is why a lot of young people
then want to move to the big cities. Got
to go to New York, got to go to Chicago
or LA where it's happening. And they
want to get a condo or an apartment
downtown because they want to go to the
bar seat and extend college a little bit
longer. And um and I think that's just
not really a sustainable way to have a
society. There has to be a way for
people to still have that sense of
community outside of let's say college
and high school even into their
adulthood and then into their old age.
So yeah, I mean that that's one of the
biggest problems going on and I agree. I
think it drives even to your point about
the whites only community in Arkansas. I
think it is driving these, let's call it
ghettoization or insulation of people
going into these artificial values-based
communities cuz where are you going to
find people? Go online, go online, start
spouting about politics or, you know,
even not just for incels and
right-wingers, but even on the left,
someone like Tyler Robinson, he's on
Discord. He's on Discord with all of the
Overwatch players and all the LGBTQ or
whatever. And I think that, you know,
there's a tendency there where everybody
kind of amplifies some of the resentment
or feelings there. So I agree that's a
huge driver.
>> So for you, like back in high school
when you were like first kind of
starting to use the internet and all
that, did you build most of your
community in person outside Chicago or
was it mostly online?
>> When I was in high school or college?
>> High school.
>> The high school I had real friends in
the model UN. That was my favorite
thing. So that was
>> But you were still creating like some
kind of content at that time.
>> Not in high school. No.
>> Okay. So you went to BEu.
>> Yes.
>> Were most of your friends like
classmates there? like when when did you
start to kind of build your online
persona and community around your
content?
>> It wasn't until I left college. So to
that point, I had friends in college. Uh
and then when I left college and started
my show independently, then it was all
people online and everybody I knew was
people from my community for the most
part.
>> But your cancellation from mainstream
platforms uh was effectively the same
thing as like a community collapse for
your personal life, right?
>> Yeah. Well, I I wouldn't even say it was
just the cancellation, but even more
just returning home from college. What
do you think would have happened to you
like career-wise and personal life-wise
if you never would have been
mainstreamed? I mean, I guess removed
from major social media platforms.
>> Oh, it'd be a lot easier to make
friends, uh, let's say, cuz you know,
being banned on Instagram, you might as
well be dead in Generation Z. That's how
everybody sees each other, meets each
other, talks to each other. So, I think
I probably have a wider, livelier
circle.
>> Do you feel like you like had less
friends after that?
>> Uh, no. I'd say it's about the same.
>> No, but I mean, you said that like you
feel like it would have been easier to
make friends. It would have been easy to
make more friends. Yeah, sure.
>> So, aside from your career, how was your
like personal and social life affected
in those following years?
>> Well, it's brutal, you know? I mean, uh
because everybody that I knew from high
school is on Instagram, on Facebook, and
I'm just not on there. It's almost like
you're removed from the earth for
generation Z. I understand for older
people, for different generation, people
still meet up or stay in touch in other
ways, but if you're if you're not online
as a young person, you might as well be
dead. Do you think you would have said
like some of the more extreme things
that you did say if you, you know, I
guess were allowed to remain on the
mainstream internet?
>> Absolutely. Yeah.
>> Looking back, and I'm not trying to get
you to like take something back
necessarily. What's like one thing that
you said when you were younger where
you're like, "Fuck, I wish I would wish
I could take that back."
>> You know, I don't know if I regret what
I've said, it's just how you say it.
>> Yeah. Like [clears throat] can you think
of an example of like when you listen
back to something you're like geez I
>> wish I so I did this rally in 2023
called Fentus Rally 2 and the one
comment I said we're talking about a
spiritual battle between Christians and
everybody else and I said we're in a
holy war I said and we're going to make
them die in a holy war and the second I
said that I was like didn't mean to say
that. It's an extemporaneous speech so
you don't rehearse it. You just say
things and I was like didn't mean that.
Shouldn't have said that. Um, so it's
always the how. It's always in the
delivery that I
>> Nick, I can think of about four things
that I really wish you would take back
right now. But wait,
>> the cookies in the oven.
>> Well, that's a joke.
>> But it's not, Nick. My wife is Jewish.
My son is Jewish. No, no, no. Nick,
Nick, Nick, Nick, Nick, Nick, Nick, I
promise you, don't get mad.
>> I'm not mad.
>> I know. I know. But okay, but you got to
understand how incredibly
incredibly whether it's a joke or not,
it's a lived experience passed down from
generation to generation. Whether or not
it and by the way, not just from the
Holocaust, not from not just from 1939
on 2,000 years of history, okay? Forget
about Israeli politics and and Netanyahu
because I think we agree about BB
Netanyahu. I'm positive we do and I'
I've listened to you talk about it. But
you got to understand, look at me, man.
>> I see.
>> It hurts. It hurt. Nick, I I promise you
it does. When you compare my wife's
family to cookies going to an oven, it
hurts. And you've got to understand
that. And by the way, I'm looking at
you. Yeah. And I believe that you do
know that.
>> That's where you lose me. That's where
you lose me.
>> Okay, Nick. Okay. I'm telling you.
>> Well, listen. Are we here to talk or are
you here to lecture me and preach?
>> Okay. No, you're right. Let me listen.
You're right. You're right. This is the
thing because you know and I think this
is a disconnect. I think that the left
and even people on the right, they're
losing the young people. Why do people
love me? Not in spite of but because of
the outrageous things that I say. Not in
spite of but because I say offensive
things because I let's say drop the
n-word on a video or something. It's
because people are sick of the
preachiness, the lecturing.
>> Okay, I'll listen to what you are. But
Nick, I see I disagree. I think that
you're appealing to the lowest common
denominator of thought. If you're hating
on the people that they think are the
reason for their suffering, then you
must be on their side. I don't think
that you believe that about the
Holocaust. I think you think the
Holocaust did happen. But forget about
whether or not you think that is used
politically in a way that is obtuse and
and and wrong. But I think that you do
believe that. And I think that you have
to like what's your cultural heritage?
>> I'm Italian, Mexican, and Irish.
>> Mexican. Wh when when when did they come
in Italian? When did they when did the
Mexicans come? When did the Irish come?
>> Mexicans came turn of the last century.
Italians came in the 1860s. Irish came
in the early 1900s.
>> Okay. So maybe you wouldn't care about
something that is like grossly offensive
just on the face of it and think that oh
why can't people just believe that
that's funny? But you got to understand
is from a perspective of somebody that
has the the trauma and I think that
there is such a thing as generational
trauma and those stories are passed down
generation to generation. When you say
something like that it just they
completely shut off. They can't hear
another thing that you're saying about
this cultural disconnect about losing
communities about the about the feeling
of being left out or left behind in a
world in which there are no longer is
this sense of community. all the other
things that you say people everybody
else is left and you what you do pick up
you pick up the ones that that hear the
dog whistle you pick up the ones that
say uh-huh yeah that's the way that I
feel because it's radical it's it's like
he's willing to say the thing that
nobody else will say in this environment
and then you you get you know an
enormous amount of niche but you know uh
but love from that and I don't but I
just don't believe that you believe that
I don't I don't believe that you think
that it was appropriate for you to say
something like that. I don't think it's
you believe that it's appropriate to say
women shouldn't vote.
>> Let's give Nick a second to respond to
the first thing.
>> I know I talk constantly. That's how I
that's how I do this.
>> It's all good. I apologize.
>> I get it and I understand that
perspective and I you know it is
offensive and it is provocative and and
that's sort of what makes it funny. I
mean what we would say in our generation
is edge lording. We're being edgy. We're
being provocative. And I think that it
is that kind of overbearing sense for
our entire
>> I'm the king of edge lord.
>> Let's let Nick explain the psychology.
>> It's that overbearingness that my
generation's had our entire lives.
That's not appropriate. That's not
funny. Think of the trauma. That's
racist. That's white supremacist that
makes it funny. That makes it different.
Interesting. And let let me grant by the
way I think that now and this is maybe a
concession towards you. Now that my kind
of humor has become mainstream and
popular, I don't even think that that's
funny anymore. People do the edgeording
thing, it's become so commonplace and so
tired, I don't think it's that funny or
impressive. That's a big part of why it
kind of moved past it because 10 years
ago it was treated like sacrilegious.
And there's something funny about the
fact that you could say a word or make a
joke and make people lose their minds
and freak out and it was like an
international incident if you said the
wrong thing. And I think that's what
made made it tempting especially for a
young person. you want to rebel, you
want to be defiant, you want to be a
little revolutionary or something. Now,
as time has gone on, I think that's
become a fad. Everybody does it. It's
lost its power. And I think that, by the
way, part of why we're getting less of
it is because instead of getting the
preachy lecture from the left saying
that's not appropriate, people just roll
their eyes. Now, when an edgy white
person says the n-word, people roll
their eyes and go, "Really?" You know
that joke again? People hear uh uh
someone wears a Nazi costume, makes a
Holocaust joke, people go, "Really? That
joke again? It's not impressive. It's
not funny anymore. We've seen it
before." And ironically, that is what
makes you get less of it. When you
disempower those things by not giving
them this over-the-top reaction,
pretending like it's some some great
travesty.
>> So, you think the new counterculture is
going to be to be woke again?
>> No, I think it's a synthesis.
>> A synthesis of post edge lordism and
wokeism.
>> Yes. Because I I think that wokeism had
its excesses. Edgelording also has its
excesses. And I think now we're finding
a middle ground between saying the
edgiest thing we can think of with no
regard for anyone and saying everything
is racist. You know, if you say
something you should lose your job.
We're finding a middle ground where, you
know, maybe it's tasteful. Tastefully
offensive in small doses, less is more.
>> So, it sounds like you believe in the
survival of the American experiment.
>> Yeah, I really do. And and listen, I
don't think everything about wokeism was
bad necessarily.
>> What's the best thing about wokeism? I
think that genuinely it has made people
more respectful and empathetic because
let's be honest 20 years ago let's say
when I was growing up I think there was
a lot of cruelty and I think there there
were some hateful attitudes and I think
as time has gone on this younger
generation they may not be even
left-wing they may not be what you'd
consider woke but I think they are
respectful of people that have different
ideas or you know a different way of
life or from a different culture you
know I we make jokes all the time about
the fact that I'm like a far-right guy
and I'm Mexican. People say, "I'm a
white supremacist. I'm Mexican." And
people make a joke that a lot of
far-right people are Hispanic. And I
think that's a consequence that there's
very little genuine racial hatred in in
anybody's DNA anymore or any kind of
hatred. And I think that's positive. But
that went too far. I think some of the
other stuff went too far as well.
>> You know, one of the strange things
about sitting in a room with these two
[music] is that they agree on almost
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nightmare. Hunter had a laptop turned
into a decade of [music] strangers
picking through his texts, his private
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got breached and 70,000 people had their
government IDs exposed in one day.
That's what this ecosystem looks like
when it fails. And it fails constantly.
Now, you might be thinking, "Okay, but
I'm not Hunter Biden, Andrew Callahan,
or Nick Fuentes. Nobody's coming after
me. And honestly, I get that. But here's
what actually happens when your info is
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All right, back to Hunter and Nick.
Ablas Espanol.
>> No, not a little bit, I guess, from high
school.
>> Can you do a little bit? [laughter]
>> Poco. I don't speak it from my dad. So,
>> did you grow up like around a lot of
Mexicans?
>> No. All white people for the most part.
>> Did they know you were Mexican?
>> They did. And not going to lie, I mean,
people people made fun of me for that.
>> What' they say?
>> Well, like for example, one time when I
was in Model UN, I was entering high
school as a freshman. They looked at my
name on the roster without knowing me.
And they told me this after the fact.
The leadership of the club, they said,
"Oh, we thought you were just some
Mexican kid, so we gave you a bad
committee assignment."
>> Wow.
>> But see, I heard that and I laughed. I
said, "That's that's funny." You know,
whereas a lot of people would say, "Oh,
that's traumatic. I'm a victim of
racism." You know, I think that's um you
know, it's it's just a human thing.
>> Yeah. I always felt like growing up as
like a white kid in America. What if you
want wait what if what if you were and
identified as being Mexican and they
came to you and and they didn't tell you
that's the reason that they gave you all
the bad committee assignments.
>> That would be unfair.
>> Yeah. It's interesting. I'm just saying
>> that's the whole point, isn't it?
>> Some you may find it funny because you
pass as a white Anglo Christian.
>> Do you think I pass?
>> What?
>> You think I pass as a white
Anglo-Christian?
>> Well, I I not I not only think you pass,
I think you identify as a Yeah.
[laughter] Yeah. Yeah,
>> let's go.
>> Yeah. No, but but for real and my my
point is is that I heard you do an
interview. Okay. And I literally on the
write up here is like you were talking
about um how you were raised on like
Mark Leavvin be in high school, right?
>> And the thing that you like the the most
about Mark Levvin is how cruel he was to
the the callers.
>> I don't see I I don't get that. I like
the joke about the cookies. It may be a
joke and it may be edge lording and you
may not really mean it but you got to
realize the cruelty to it and without
going like oh like you know wh like you
know people got to stop crying about the
past and that's the thing is that I
think that you have such an opportunity
to talk to a generation of disaffected
angry um legitimately angry people in a
way in which is is positive without
having to do that And by the way,
and I'm not holding you responsible for
like, you know, the end of of of uh, you
know, my conception of Western
civilization, which is different than
yours, but I just don't get it. I don't
get why you find the cruelty. And I
think that, by the way, I think that
that's why you like Trump. I mean, this
is I'm making, you know, like a very
unfair leap because his first instinct
is cruelty. His first instinct is to
find the fault in the other about
everything. By the way, it's not his
fault that that we're in a war with
Iran, that he's ended 38 times and, you
know, and started 39. It's not his fault
that inflation's high. It's not his
fault that the wall didn't get built.
It's not his fault that I killing people
on the streets in where in in these
places. Is it the cruelty of it? Maybe
it's a generational thing. I got friends
who are Jewish that are going to be
really really pissed off that
I'm sitting next to you. And what do I
tell them? What do I tell them? why it's
okay for me to sit and have this
conversation with you.
>> I guess I just have such a different
opinion of that. You know, why why
should we have to explain ourselves to
talk to anybody? And why is it that
saying the wrong words or making a
particular joke makes it so the Jewish
person wouldn't want to watch my show? I
have a lot of Jewish fans. I mean, some
of my best friends are Jewish. I've had
Jewish employees and they recognize
that, you know, just because I'm not
necessarily nice all the time doesn't
mean I'm hateful. doesn't mean I don't
even think they see it as cruel. I think
they see it as it's it's a little rough
around the edges. And I maybe that's the
difference is I I guess it's just
attributing this weight to something
that be considered a joke and maybe
doesn't have a cruel intention behind
it. Like you know Mark Levvin, you got
to remember at the end of the day it's
an entertainment show. It's
entertainment. People call in, he gets
frustrated with them. It's part of what
I do on my show and uh it's not always
nice but it's funny and I don't think
it's mean-spirited necessarily and I
don't think it's that big of a deal. So,
I mean, the the thought that I would
like, for example, with you, people
would say, "Why do you talk to Hunter
Biden? His father and his DOJ froze your
money and put you on a no-fly list." I'd
say, "So what?" I mean, it's just
talking. I don't think talking's a big
deal. You know,
>> froze my money and put me on a no-fly
list, too.
>> There you go. See, so we got that in
common. [laughter] So, a different
question that I have that kind of weaves
everything together. How do you think
like October 7th and the subsequent like
pro Palestine movement and the online
worlds it created led to a growing
audience on the right?
>> October 7th in particular. Well, I I
think it it highlighted and brought to
the forefront how captured the
right-wing is by Israel, which is very
unique. I think the Democrats and the
Republicans are pro-Israel, but the
Republican party has this inextricable
institutional connection with the Israel
lobby, with this lyood government in
particular. And I think people just
started to see the hypocrisies. The
hypocrisy was brought to the forefront,
which is America first, but not with
Israel. No new wars except for with
Iran.
>> Under Trump, we will have no more wars.
No more wars. No more wars.
>> They said he will start a war. I'm not
going to start a war. I'm going to stop
wars. Tonight, Iran's navy is gone.
>> You know, we're going to be racist and
all these things, but don't you dare be
anti-semitic. Don't even, you know,
think about it.
>> I see good things about Hitler. Also,
every human being has something of value
that they brought to the table,
especially Hitler.
>> So, I think that on the right wing, it
made it unignorable that there's this
ideological institutional capture.
>> I just feel like a lot of
straightforward like just anti-semite
influencers were taking advantage of the
post October 7th discourse to push other
ideas, broader ideas about Jewish people
as a whole.
>> Come out and say it like I think that
Jews are causing a disproportionate
amount of problems in the United States.
Well, I mean, I I think it's hard to
ignore some of those other
conversations. I I know that it's it's
now become maybe in vogue to say that
the Israel issue is very narrow. It's
just Netanyahu. It's just the Lykudnix.
It's just the Israel lobby. But, you
know, what would you say about someone
like Larry Ellison? I mean, somebody
like that, I don't think fits neatly
into this, let's say, problem of
Netanyahu
>> as far as installing very We wise and
whatnot.
>> Yes.
>> Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. because this is
somebody who's not Israeli. He's not
even a religious Jew, but he's
ethnically Jewish and has this deep
affinity for the state of Israel.
>> You know, I feel a deep a deep con
emotional connection to the state of
Israel and the Israeli people
>> and is using and mobilizing his power
and resources and connections to benefit
Israel and the private sector. And so,
if you were to say, "What's a law that
we could pass to prevent that kind of
influence?" What would it look like?
He's an American citizen. he can't buy a
media company and hire Barry Weiss to
run CBS News. And yet we recognize
that's a big problem.
>> I just feel the conflation of like
anti-ionism and like Holocaust denial
played into the hands of the Israeli
propaganda apparatus cuz then they can
say, "Hey, look, these people that
oppose what we're doing in Palestine
also don't think the Holocaust happened
for it's a big jump in in the public
perception." It was almost to me as if
that was your intent to to lose any
legitimacy about any argument as it
relates to Israel and the Lud government
is to say those edgelording things or
whatever.
>> Jews are money changers,
artists, psychopaths, charlatans,
[music] grifters, manipulators.
>> I don't know anybody that can hear you
after you say that, including myself. It
delegitimizes
everything because I don't think that
you a little bit of more compassion.
>> Let's try to stay a little I don't want
to do any character attacks on Nick. I I
>> I'm not attacking his character. I'm not
attacking I'm what I I promise you I I I
>> No, but as far as compass I I'm more
just mean straightforward. Do you feel
like the rise in anti-Semitic online
influencers post October 7th has given
Israel more ammunition to work with in
terms of casting everyone who opposes
what they're doing as just like a rabid
Jew hater? Um, in some cases, yeah, in
some cases, sure. But I I also think
that's overstated because I think that,
you know, look, let's just be honest,
the I do believe the political left
wants to make the Israel issue very
narrow and they want to say that the
issue is this genocide in Palestine. And
on some level, they think that the
Israeli government is racist.
>> You banging pig. You bloodthirsty
violent pig dog.
>> And that's the problem. And I think that
that ignores that there is a broader
conversation and it does have to do with
the Holocaust and it does have to do
with Jews as such and and Jewish
nationalism and Jewish identity. Um so
to to try to shoehorn it in and say,
"Well, if anybody goes further than this
very narrow critique of Israel while
they're actually helping Israel, I don't
agree with that. I think we have to
unpack the whole conversation."
>> Well, do you care a lot about
Palestinians?
>> Uh not more than I care about anybody
else. So, I guess that would be why that
they would be like, "Okay, you're just
taking advantage of this discourse."
>> I don't think it's taking advantage. I
think that we can sympathize with the
Palestinians while also realizing that,
you know, look, I'm an American and so
it's a tragedy what's happening in
Palestine, but there's tragedies
happening all over the world. My problem
is that Israel has this influence over
our government.
>> I'm a newcomer to politics, but not to
backing the Jewish state.
>> And we're paying for the genocide, and
we're furnishing them with the weapons
to commit the genocide. And by the way,
America is going to be held liable for
this genocide morally, but also
politically and diplomatically and
otherwise. But I think that people on
the left may they may be guilty of maybe
caring more about Palestine than they do
about America.
>> Nick, but the left didn't cancel you.
The right cance canceled you first. The
right canceled you first. And and Ben
Shapiro and the Daily Wire and that was
those were the people that can. They may
have utilized the tools of the left or
what you call the left to be able to do
that, but it was the right that canceled
you. And by the way, what I would
consider a radical right, the Daily Wire
to me is is a is a radical right.
>> I I don't think they're even
reactionary. I don't think they're that
conservative at all. Ben Shapiro, I
mean, he's not like he's in favor of In
2016, they were they were alt-right.
>> No, they were not.
>> Ben Shapiro and the Daily Wire weren't
they were to the right of Mitt Romney.
You know [clears throat] what I mean?
That's what I mean. And that's
>> Mormon conservatives.
>> My point was that's who you were
canceled by.
>> I was also canceled by the left.
>> No, I know. They came along. They came
along because some of the more egregious
things that you said that you said is
edgeorting, they came along. And whether
you call it cancelling or saying like
what the This is what I call it.
What the [laughter] Like, you
know, like what the you know? And
so like I don't find it funny. And just
like you're able to say, well, I just
think it's funny. I'm able to say I
don't find it funny. I don't
find I didn't find it funny then. I
don't find it funny. Now, I didn't find
it funny that some of the things that,
you know, you said about me, but I'm I'm
willing to sit here and and and listen
to to you because I want to get to this.
And this is my whole point. What about
Donald Trump?
>> Yeah, we can get to that. How did you
get how of all the people in the world,
but you could look at and say he doesn't
believe anything?
>> So, for context for the viewer, Donald
Trump is currently the sitting president
of the US. for our audience abroad. Uh
the war with Iran uh was supposed to be
over. Now we're back in business, baby.
Hania had a pretty sick funeral if you
saw the video. So you guys don't like
Trump. You used to like him.
>> I did.
>> You've always hated him. He's tried to
destroy your life.
>> Yeah.
>> You guys were cool. You guys hung out
once at Maraago with Kanye.
>> You've never hung out with Trump.
>> Right. Would you want to?
>> No.
>> But do I want to? Yeah, I look man. I I
would I like Can we get him? Can we get
him in the motel? So, I want you to
imagine I want you to imagine he's in
the motel with us. That's Trump. What do
you want to How about What do you want
to ask him?
>> Oh,
you know, putting me on the spot. I
don't want to ask Donald Trump anything
because I know and I and I think you
would agree with me is that Donald Trump
isn't going to give me any a an
authentic answer. Donald Trump never
gives an authentic answer. He gives what
people
refer to as being authentic, but it's
not authentic. It's audacious. It's like
the the example that I give that is the
best metaphor for this is that he says
he's 6'3, weighs 225 lbs. And everybody
laughs because that's a little bit like
edgeerting, right? Everybody knows that
he is maybe 6 maybe 6 feet and weighs
maybe 300 and 285.
>> He's a big guy. He's a pretty big guy.
>> Yeah, big guy. But by virtue of every
picture ever taken of anyone that's 6'3,
he's not 6'3.
>> I am.
>> Okay. Yeah, I know you are.
>> Thank you.
>> You're 6'2 and a half. Maybe. Maybe.
>> But my point is is that the reason I
don't have a question for him is because
I'm absolutely certain that he is not
going to give me an authentic answer.
Look, he came into the Oval Office, my
and the transition this time and he told
my dad that he thought that he did an
amazing job. He did an amazing job with
the economy. He did an amazing job that
with NATO he did an amazing job and that
he got a raw deal from his side and
anything he could do particularly for
Hunter. Hunter got screwed. whatever I
can do, you let me know. He
then went out and he has now since then
done nothing but blame Joe Biden for
every single one of his problems.
>> 11 months ago, I inherited a mess. Joe
Biden hand us handed us over a country
that was in very serious trouble. Biden
gave us a horrible economy.
>> And I really mean this. I think the good
parts of the Trump economy and the bad
parts of the Biden economy. He mentioned
my dad's name or my family's name six
times a day in the first 100 days of of
this administration. Six times a day. He
does it maybe four times a day now
>> because he has no answers. All he has is
a finger to point
>> and that's all he does. My point is I
don't know what to ask him. You know,
why are you such a dick?
>> What does your dad think about the war?
>> Right. But I don't I'm not going to get
into what my dad thinks about the war.
Is it really? Because I don't want like
I don't want to get into um I I not put
words in in my dad's mouth just like I
wouldn't ask you what your dad thinks
about the war. But your dad wasn't the
president of the United States which is
a little bit different.
I look I all I can say is this is that
every single Israeli prime minister
since Jimmy at least Jimmy Carter was
president has walked into the Oval
Office or picked up the phone and called
the president and said we have to attack
Iran. And every single one of them has
said no. And they may not all have had
the same exact reason, but one of the
reasons they did is because they knew
what the consequences would be as it
relates to the lifeblood of the economy
is petroleum in the streets of Hormones.
Every single one of them knew that. And
every single one of them knew that there
is no way unless you send in ground
forces to be to to to end with certainty
the nuclear program that the Iranians
have supposedly been building. Every
single one of them knew that the
existing Ayatollah, the Ayatollah at
that time had put out a fatwa, a a an
edict saying that they would never turn
their nuclear technology into a bomb.
>> The supreme leader of Iran issued fatwa.
Having
weapons is forbidden. It's haram, which
means never we can have nuclear weapons.
It was a religious edict as strong as if
the pope had released an in encyclical.
But what did he do? He kills the
Ayatollah. We get a son that now has a
far more radical and far greater ties to
the um the IRGC. And what do we have?
The straits moves are still closed. He's
he's he said that they're brilliant
people. I find that that's Donald Trump
on everything. He said he'd end the war
in Ukraine on day one.
>> That is a war that's dying to be
settled. I will get it settled before I
even become president.
>> And I didn't hear anybody on the right
or and and say that's just
There's it's just He said he
would build a wall. I don't believe in
building a wall, but everybody said
that's And then when he got
into office, the corruption, the level
of the corruption, I mean, people
believed or led to believe that there
was this thing called the Biden crime
family, right? I know that you know is
that I didn't do a single piece of
business when my dad was president. I
made basically $200,000 a year selling
paintings. I picked the thing that was
the furthest possible thing away from
from uh from politics that I possibly
could. Don and Eric have done over $1.3
billion in contracts just in contracts
for underlying companies that they have
an ownership stake in with the
Department of Defense. Don Jr. got the
largest loan ever given by the
Department of Defense of a company that
he bought into like 3 months before they
got the loan because Peter Navaro picked
up the phone and called uh DoD to get it
done. My point is I don't have anything
productive to say to him that I know of.
And when I listen to you and I listen to
what you do is my question is is how did
you not see that before? He was a
disaster in 2020. a complete and utter
disaster as it related to what he did
with co regardless of whether you think
we were supposed to be wearing a mask or
not.
>> The question for Nick is how did you not
realized six years ago that Trump would
be this sort of let down
>> because he doesn't hold you know he
there's no ideological core to Donald
Trump.
>> No, I agree with you. Well, you got to
realize in 2016 where Republicans were
at. We had John McCain, we had Mitt
Romney and the perception on the right
is that they were insufficiently
conservative and that they were losers.
All they do is lose because they don't
fight. There was this perception that
the Democrats are ruthless fighters.
Obama crushed in 2008, crushed when we
thought we he really should have lost in
2012. That was a Republican perception
that Romney let us down. And so when
Trump came on the scene in 2016, it was
new. It was refreshing. He seemed like
somebody that was really going to take
on not just the Democrats, but also the
media on our behalf. And what's more,
you got to think about the mood of the
moment in 16 as well and the message
Trump was giving. Trump said in 16,
"It's just me and my son and my wife. We
don't have any donors. We don't have any
special interest.
>> More than hundred million dollars put in
of my money." Meaning, I'm not taking
all of this big money from all of these
different corporations like she's doing.
>> We're going to put America first. Make
the country great again. This is a very
appealing message and I talk all the
time on my show about it and realizing
now that it was obviously a scam and now
obviously unfulfilled completely. And
you're right, Trump is non ideological.
The message was brilliant because it
said one, the system is broken.
America's not great anymore, but it used
to be. We can make it great again, but
in order to do it, we need to actually
bypass the system. Why is it that we
never have victories? Why is it that
things don't change? Because of money,
he said. And that's why I'm different.
I'm rich. I'm a billionaire. If I
self-fund my campaign and don't take
super PAC money, then I won't have to
listen to the lobbyists and the special
interest. I could fire the people I need
to fire, do the things I need to do.
That was like a very powerful message in
2016. And after four years, I was one of
the people even back then that said,
"Look, it never materialized." He did
wind up taking super PAC money. He took
Apac money for that matter. Sheldon
Adlesen money at that time in 16. Even
in the first term, bombed Iran. In the
first term, didn't build the wall. In
the first term, didn't even reduce
illegal immigration until 2019. And I
remember the timeline perfectly because
I covered it every day. It was like in
May and June 2019, 20-year illegal
immigration high in terms of month over
month. But why did I go for him in 2020
at the height of the pandemic? We all
thought on the right that if anyone
other than Trump was president, you were
going to get a vaccine mandate, which we
really didn't want to be forced to take
the vaccine. We thought the lockdown
might never end. We thought that
censorship would kick into overdrive.
And so we said, really, it's
unacceptable that anyone other than
Trump would would just be a disaster.
And then obviously Biden came in and I
don't think it was as bad as we thought
it would be to tell you the truth
[laughter]
honestly. But by 2024,
>> I mean, I was out in 2024 cuz everything
you're saying is totally true. And I was
telling people on my side, I was saying
he's not going to build the wall. And I
know you're against that. He's not going
to do the mass deportations promising
that he's not going to start no new
wars. I said in 24 he's going to take us
to war in Iran. And the Ukraine war, I
said, "That's not going to end in one
day. Too complicated. were already in
it. Um, and so I didn't vote. I didn't
vote in 2024. And I told my followers
not to vote for Trump for that reason.
And it was only until a year later after
all the exuberance died down and people
saw the bearing of the Epstein files,
the war in Iran, people said, "You know
what? You were right. You were right
about Trump." Even Alex Jones told me,
"You were right about Trump. I I was all
in on him." So, I mean, as far as him
being vaporware is concerned and a
scammer and and fundamentally, you're
100% right. no ideological core. He's
not an ideological guy. Yeah, it is.
He's
>> literally all about him.
>> And I agree. He's a cruel narcissist.
>> And you said, "I like the cruelty." I I
do not like the
>> No, no, by the way, no, I didn't say you
like the cruelty. I said, "I'm listening
to your thing and you say one of the
things that you liked about Levvin was
the cruelty." And and not for the
cruelty sake. It didn't seem to me like
there is because it was raw. It was
Yeah. Yeah. And that's So I I'm not
saying that.
>> No, but I do I agree. I think I think he
is cruel and even what he said on
Easter. I mean we're Catholic on Easter
Sunday he says we're going to annihilate
Iran and then he made fun of Allah on
Easter Sunday. So you know that that
kind of stuff it just totally turned me
off entirely.
>> Is there anything that you think Trump
can do to like regain the support of the
I guess Gen Z and millennial right?
>> No, it's over. People see what he's made
of and Hunter is right. He's a liar. He
is a liar. He is a a artist.
And especially you look at what he did
with the Epstein files with the war in
Iran, what he did to Thomas Massie.
>> This guy named Thomas Massie, there's
something wrong with them. They just
vote no. They love voting no. They think
it's good politically.
>> You realize that if you are America
first, you have no place in this
Republican party. Cuz he said it. He
said our Republican party or rather he
said MAGA is Mark Levvin, Laura Loomer,
Randy Fine. He said and who is not MAGA?
Megan Kelly, Tucker, Alex Jones,
Candice, and I think most Republicans
said, "Well, we're with those other
people. We're not MAGA anymore." So,
>> what do you think happens, Nick? I
believe that we need radical change. And
I'm not talking about violence or
revolution or things like that. I'm
talking about the only ways that you're
going to have this kind of radical
rethinking of the of the of the system.
Like I there's so many qu like what do
you think about the Epstein files? What
do you think about the accountability?
Do you think that he's broken the system
to the degree that we now are basically
in a dictatorship light?
>> No. I I actually I have a lot of
confidence only because I think the
Democrats are going to take the House in
26, which I support. I'm telling my
people, vote Democrat. We want the
Democrats in the House because what
they're going to do is they're going to
use the oversight powers to bring all
the corruption to light because I know
Republicans will watch this and when you
say, you know, we we didn't commit
crime, they're going to be skeptical.
However, for the sake of argument, let's
say the income you made during Biden was
ill gotten for the sake of example. It's
just not doesn't hold a candle. It
doesn't even come close. Doesn't even
touch Jared Kushner, Howard Lutnik,
Steve Whitoff, Don Jr., Trump himself.
It's just a different sport. It's a
different game entirely. And I want all
that corruption to be revealed. And I
think the Democrats are going to do it.
I hope they get impeached. I don't think
they'll be removed from office, but I
think it'll basically drag this
administration to a halt. And then 28, I
think there's an opportunity for a clean
reset wi with both sides, right and
left.
>> Hey guys, quick thing before we get back
to Hunter and Nick. So these two guys
[music] individually have been hammered
on all sides by the American media for
years. And if you want to understand why
the coverage looks the way it does
[music] historically, you got to ask an
important question that nobody asks. Who
owns the outlets doing the hammering?
Who's doing the hammering? Who funds
them? Who's on the board of directors?
Once you trace the money, the whole
two-party culture war thing starts
looking a lot less like a real fight and
a lot more like a business [music] model
and a very effective one. And Ground
News is how I see right through it. So,
Ground News is the dopest news aggregate
[music] out there, app, and website as
well. Beyond the ownership piece, every
outlet gets a bias rating and a
factuality score. And there's a blind
spot feature that catches stories that
one side is hammering while the other
side is completely ignoring, which
happens more than you'd believe. [music]
Here's a perfect example. So, my man,
Big Hunter Biden, Big HB, just won a
$1.7 million [music] defamation suit
against ex-overstock CEO Patrick Burn,
who lied and claimed that Hunter took an
$800 million bribe from the Iranians.
[music] Pull it up in ground news. So,
the WLT report on the far right, the
sister site of we love Trump.com, spent
four years on my boy Hunter.
But today, the headline [music] reads,
"Hunter scores stunning $1.7 million
court victory." Wow, stunning. Now on
the left raw story says Hunter gets last
laugh after judge orders MAGA
millionaire to fork over nearly 2
million. So on this story [music] as you
can see left right everyone converges.
That's the ownership beat right there.
WLT report is a [music] Trump loyal
outlet and even they had to run the wind
straight. That's the ownership beat
right there. And when you can actually
see the ownership inside of ground
[music] news, you can really trust
exactly what you're reading. Look, I
don't do much news commentary. I do
documentaries. But before I sit down
with [music] two guys who've been
extensively attacked by the press for
years, I got to know where the coverage
of them is actually [music] coming from
before I ask my questions. And Ground
News is exactly how I do it. If you want
to be just like me and join the [music]
GNC5 family, go to ground.news/ channel5
or scan the QR code on screen. You'll
get 40% off the Vantage plan, [music]
the illst plan on the dopest app in
human history. Break out of the
algorithm. Ground news. All right, back
to Hunter and Nick. Whenever you talk
about Trump, [music] sometimes you you
explain this like nightmare scenario
that revolves around a Vance presidency.
>> Yes.
>> What about JD Vance being in power
scares you so much?
>> If Trump doesn't have an ideological
core, then Vance really doesn't because
Vance is a chameleon. That's not his
real name for openers. Never had a real
job. These are all synicures given to
him by Peter Teal. 6 years ago, he's a
never Trumper.
>> I'm a never Trump guy. I never liked
him. I think that he's leading people in
a very dark direction and that's
ultimately what worries me the most.
>> Terrible candidate. Idiot if you voted
for him. Might be America's Hitler.
>> Uh I was wrong about Donald Trump. I
didn't think he was going to be a good
president, Brett. He was a great
president. Now he's a national
conservative, national populist. And so
we don't even really know who he is. I
mean, to me, this is this is basically a
manurian candidate. This is a shell. And
who is the power behind him? It's the
it's the oligarchs. It's the little tech
oligarchs in bed with the CIA, you know,
especially at this fever pitch with AI.
I think that's really dangerous. So, to
me, him being president is just a worst
scenario in my mind.
>> For the uninformed viewer, what is the
Palunteer JD Vance connection?
>> Well, Palanteer was founded by Peter
Teal. Um, and Peter Thiel's very close
with David Saxs. JD Vance was given his
first job in Silicon Valley by Teal.
Teal hooked him up with it. You know,
the the CEO of that company said it was
a personal favor to Teal that I hired
him. And then Teal got him all his jobs
at these various venture capital firms,
including his own, and then funding JD
Vance's venture capital firm. Peter Teal
gave $15 million to Vance when he ran
for Senate in Ohio in 22. Peter Teal
secured President Trump's endorsement
for him in 22, which basically got him
the nomination in the seat. So, I mean,
as far as anybody's concerned, Vance
owes his entire political career to
Peter Teal, who deres his fortune from
Palunteer.
>> And now he's a Catholic like you and me.
Well, [laughter] he's a convert, so you
know,
>> beware of the convert.
>> So, do you think that that Trump's
unfulfillment of his campaign promises
was a result of him being like
compromised by somebody connected to
that structure, or do you think he
always just never cared?
>> Uh, I don't know that it's he never
cared. I just think that, you know, me,
I'm an idealist, so I think about the
ideas and the concepts. Trump is a
businessman, and so I think with him,
everything's transactional. And I said
this in 2024. He knew Trump knew the
voters would swallow anything. The
voters could not would not walk away
from the table because they were
enamored with him.
>> I could stand in the middle of Fifth
Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't
lose any voters. Okay? It's like
incredible. So he knew he could break
every promise with them in order to
fulfill promises for the donor class,
which is little tech, the Israel lobby,
and Wall Street, the bankers, Tim Melon,
um you know, the big asset managers. So
I think with him, everything's business.
Everything's a transaction. And that's
why you can't trust him. You have to do
business. And in 24, I said we should
all collectively say we're not going to
vote unless he makes certain
commitments. And not enough people did
that. But I mean that that's
fundamentally his flaw.
>> Your critique of this like elite power
structure sounds like vaguely anti-
capitalist.
>> It's not it's not anti- capitalist. You
know, capitalism says the capital large
amounts of capital will be held in
private hands, which I believe in. I am
a capitalist. But I think what is
happening is that it's the way that
money is used in government. There needs
to be a distinct and separate national
power that it that subordinates the
money power to it. The problem is the
billionaires buy all the elections, buy
all the media, control public
perception, and so re really we're all
subsidiary then to the market. So I I
support capitalism, but it just has to
be underneath the nation, underneath the
state.
>> It seems like you have a pretty
optimistic uh perspective on the year
2028.
>> Well, he's going to get a third term. So
Trump 28, Trump is going to be president
in 28.
>> Kind of keep coming back to this like
clean election year. Do you think that's
going to be like a renaissance year for
outsider candidates and outside media
channels like this one?
>> It can be. I I think it certainly can be
because I think there's frustration on
the right and on the left. You know, you
see even in the primaries on the
Democrat side, it's all DSA progressive
types that are winning. You you
ironically have the same frustration on
the left with their establishment as we
have on the right. And so I think, you
know, in 2028, it's going to be a year
where there'll be a competitive
Republican primary and Democratic
primary and hopefully the people make
their voice heard and we get we get some
new options, you know, maybe that
reflect the will of the people more.
>> Yeah. And so like what do you think
about somebody like M Donnie?
>> Personally, I don't like him. I don't
like some of the things that he said.
Like for example, on Fourth of July when
he takes the opportunity to sit there
with, let's be honest, not a single
white person in the room and says, you
know, the the founding fathers are would
look down on us, the working people with
their dirt streaked hands against the
billionaires. I think it's a little too
divisive. I like his energy. I like that
he's young.
>> It's ironic. Okay, fair enough.
[laughter]
>> That's rich, buddy. But no,
>> but it seems it seems pointed at me.
>> I know. But I But yeah, [laughter] but
>> but the the thing [clears throat]
>> he was dissing you in that video.
>> Yeah, a little bit.
>> Staring down the camera like for you,
Nick. [laughter] You son of a
>> People like me.
>> Yeah. But um what I see is somebody is
using government for exactly the purpose
that you just said is to break the
igopoly to target the anger towards a
tiny tiny tiny percentage of the
population that is uh that has
controlled the the the levers of
government from the white house down to
the the mayor's um office in New York
City or Peoria Illinois to that matter
and even more so as you go further down
that chain. And so I [snorts] look at
somebody like Mandani and and
regardless of his delivery, which may be
off-putting, particularly from somebody
coming from your side, is that he's
delivering, man. You know what I mean?
is really delivering, you know, like I I
saw somebody going after mom Donnie for
some of this stuff and and um
particularly about rent control, you
know, and I was like, how do you think
that the middle class was built after
World War II in the GI Bill and and rent
control um buildings that created those
communities that we were talking about
an hour ago? The GI Bill provides
returning soldiers and veterans a range
of benefits [music] including mortgages
to purchase homes, loans to go to
school, and this really [music] was
instrumental in creating the new
American middle class. created the the
availability for somebody that was 26
years old that had a job with the MTA to
be able to live and work in the city and
put the kid in a school
uh with the idea that they would be safe
walking there
>> and go to a park that you know where the
where the water fountains worked. That's
what I see him trying to do. I mean by
the way it's just so tired and you know
rid he's a communist communist like it's
about the communists. Like who even says
that anymore? Who? Nobody. Like, you
know what? This is 19 19, you know, 81
and, you know, uh, we're watching Rocky
5 and worried about the communist. You
know what I mean? I I just don't I don't
get it.
>> Rocky 4, my whole Philly legitimacy was
just blown right there.
>> But it's just kind of And so I look at
somebody like M Donnie, I think, well,
he's just talking about good government.
Like what do you think about healthcare?
Don't you think that there should be a a
singlepayer system? Don't you think that
there should be some guarantee as as as
a right? Because I don't know how you
make it in this country and aspire to a
middle class life and be able to afford
a um you know catastrophic event as it
relates to your health. I mean it's
over. You're done.
>> Yeah.
>> I I don't support singlepayer, but I do
believe that everybody should be
entitled to some minimum level of
coverage catastrophic insurance. So in
principle, I agree,
>> which is Medicare for all to a certain
degree, right? I mean, because that's
all the Medicare does right now. But why
is that radical?
>> See, I don't think that's necessarily
radical, but I
>> Well, to to to them because we've been
convinced that it's that it's a radical.
Yeah.
>> Those others.
>> Yeah. No, them. I mean, the insurance
companies.
>> Sure.
>> And the the the lobbyists who control
55% of the of of of Congress regardless
of who's in power.
>> Right. Yeah. Well, and I don't think
that's necessarily the most radical. I
think though he is with the DSA, the
Democratic Socialist of America. He
backs all these DSA candidates. And
let's be honest, a lot of them are
radical. Like I saw one of these
candidates that just won in New York a
couple weeks ago, this shioalier
candidate. There's a picture.
>> She hates my dad.
>> Yeah.
>> She said about my dad.
>> She said awful things about him. And she
says, "Uh, oh, I didn't have a napkin to
wipe my hands, so I used the American
flag."
>> Yeah. Yeah. By the way, I think it's
crazy, but I but like the same way that,
you know, I thought a lot of the the
stuff that some people that got elected
in 2016, 2020, even during the Tea
Party, you know, kind of movement was,
you know, egregious. Again, egregious.
>> If it's a legitimate rape, uh, the
female body has ways to try to shut that
whole thing down.
>> So, what do we do? What do we do, Nick?
>> I think a better question.
>> I mean, for real, what do we do? Can you
at least come a little bit to this way?
You can come a little this way.
>> I can Here's where here's where I can
come is this.
>> Do you get what I'm saying about the
Holocaust thing?
>> Oh. Uh, about that. Um, no.
>> I mean, really,
>> I I do. I do. Um, and listen, I here's
what I'll say. Now that I'm older, I I
do think that's
>> um not the best approach. So, I agree
with you on that. And I and I see it as
I get older, you know, because let's be
honest, saying those things when I'm a
younger guy, when I'm, you know, 18, 20,
it's like, you got to think that's just
the age.
>> Jews are running society. Women need to
shut the up. Blacks need to be
imprisoned for the most part.
>> And a lot of young people think that's
funny and everything like that. I think
that it also goes with the medium as
well. Live streaming, social media,
that's just what it rewards. Um, so
yeah, I think that people should uh try
to move past some of that. I'll try. But
if you if you try.
>> Yeah. Okay.
>> Absolutely. For
>> real. And as it relates to when you talk
about Israel in Netanyahu government,
what's happening now, what's happened
for the past 20 years in terms of
whether the funding to Israel, whether
you think it is, it's really important
that you make a distinction between that
and Jews. Because here's the thing,
okay? Zor Mani Mandani has a higher
favorability rating in the United States
among Jews than BB Netanyahu does. I
think 65% of American Jews disagree with
the approach that the Israeli government
has right now. They don't disagree with
you, but they completely turn on when
they hear the conflation of Jews,
Zionism, Israel as and and think
automatically anti-semitism, whether
it's fair or not. Okay? But you have to
understand it and you have to understand
it from a cultural perspective in which
the recent history is only one data
point in 2,000 years of history as it
relates to what it means to be a Jew of
which is there is what 1%.5% of the
entire world's population because I
don't know what it adds to your argument
or what it adds to your argument about
Miriam Aden being able to give $300
million um to Donald Trump and commit to
giving another $300 million to get her
away and we end up in a war with.
>> Yeah. Well, and I I think that's a valid
point. I do think though that the issues
broader than just Netanyahu.
>> Oh, maybe by the way, it it it obviously
Netanyahu has a base within Israel
within the within the Jewish community
here in the United States with Jared
Kushner. You know what I mean? Chair
Kushner, who is unelected, not a member
of our government, is having as as more
control over the direction of everyday
lives of American people right now than
anybody that I know of. And meanwhile,
all he's doing is building a $6 billion
um private equity fund with the people
he is negotiating for. Um, and I always
say, look who's getting look who's
paying him and wondering whose interest
that he is um advancing. He's getting
paid by the Saudis, get paid by the
Amiradis, paid by the Qataris. is
getting paid. Go down the list. And for
some reason, he is in control along with
um uh Steve Wickoff, who is also not
elected by anybody of deciding whether
or not the straits of our moves are
going to open up and uh and whether or
not our our gas prices are going to go
down. It may not matter to the three of
us necessarily, you know, an extra
dollar 60 cents or 85 cents, but you
know what? to 85% of the people that
live in America. It means it it's the
difference between whether or not
they're going to be able to pay rent,
you know, whether or not you're going to
be able to actually put the gas in your
car in Montana to drive to your job on
the, you know, on the ranch. Well, and
here here's what I'll say to you, and
this is something kind of why I want to
do this interview is emphasize the
message that as far as Jews are
concerned in general. I think that it's
the same standard that applies to
everybody, which is as long as you're
patriotic, as long as you believe
Americans should be put first by their
government, I have no problem at all.
And I think that everybody in the
country should be treated with dignity
and respect and have their civil rights.
It's just this acute problem of these
people like you mentioned like Larry
Ellison and Miriam Madson and Jared
Kushner. They're putting some other
country before the interest of our own.
And that in principle is what I have a
problem with. There is going to be some
people who watch this and feel like all
right no takeback sees. And they might
feel like you're just kind of trying to
moderate and that now that you've
achieved your goal and got a lot of
support, you're kind of moderating cuz
your main aim has already been achieved
which to sort of have a generational run
and pop off. So now you're trying to
kind of make your way more into the
mainstream discourse, but that you'll
just go back again into the same sort of
reactionary rhetoric once you're back in
a number one spot.
>> Well, I don't even think I'm moderating.
And I even told our mutual friend, uh,
it's it's not even a moderation. It's
not even an apology. It's clarifying
because, you know, all along I've been
saying this message. It's just that the
way that I'm saying it changes and
evolves. And I also think how people
respond to it changes as well. Because
let's be honest, 10 years ago, there was
a very different kind of conversation
about Israel. You could not mention it
in a negative or critical way without
being utterly annihilated in politics.
We all know that ever since October 7th,
that's not the case anymore. So, I think
that there's a there's sort of something
reciprocal happening, which is that
people are receiving me differently. And
as someone that's growing older and more
mature, I'm I'm even representing myself
differently. So I I wouldn't even call
moderating, just clarifying. People are
more receptive and I'm maybe better able
to articulate it.
>> And you think that's because you've kind
of gotten older and been able to have
like a longer career in media to reflect
on your different changes in your
perhaps brain chemistry and lifestyle.
>> That's a huge thing. I mean I know it's
27 I have a very different mentality
than I did when I was 20.
>> What's the main kind of main difference?
just more even keeled and I think every
you know you know too it's like when
you're 20 you're just like a maniac and
then you hit 25 and you're like all
right you know
>> I was a maniac when I was 49 [laughter]
my brain chemistry has definitely
changed in the last seven years too you
know and and I do believe that people
can grow and they can change and I'm not
asking you to and I'm not asking you to
to say things but there are certain
things that I just hope that you can
hear without feeling attacked
that some of the things that you said,
whether it's edge learning otherwise,
are really hurtful and then people
completely turn off to the idea of being
able to listen to you about anything and
then you get dug in more and you're
like, "Go yourself, like, you know,
you can't take a joke kind of thing."
And that's not what it is. It's not just
wokeism. It's just it's not it's um
people being really really hurt by it.
>> And um and I accept your apology for all
the mean things you said about me.
[laughter]
>> Yes.
>> Yeah. You know, I'm I'm uh I'm on my
apology tour. Is that the one thing you
did say? You said I was a degenerate
crackhead. And I have to The problem
with that, not you.
>> Me?
>> Yeah. Yeah. And
>> I also said you were cool though.
>> Yeah. No, by the way, you said a
degenerate crackhead. And you know what?
I'm not even mad about that because I
was a degenerate crackhead.
>> I spent more time on my hands and knees
smoking anything that even remotely
resembled crack cocaine.
>> It's true.
>> And now you're sober. I find it
interesting. You also said that you've
never drank before,
>> right? Yeah. I've never had a drink,
never done drugs.
>> That's because you grew up, you know,
with me. You like, [laughter]
don't be that guy.
>> I grew up with you, too. And I was doing
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> You're not as smart as he is. My brother
never drank. My dad, too.
>> And um
>> I was going to ask you, Nick, what kind
of prompted your choice to just like be
sober for life and never drink? [snorts]
>> Well, uh you know, a big part of it is I
had a lot of addiction in my family. You
know, my grandfather was an alcoholic,
committed suicide. Uncle died from an
overdose from crack cocaine. My mom, two
of her uncles, heroin addicts for their
entire lives. And it just devastated my
family. Devastated both of my parents.
And uh and so I know I have that
addictive personality and probably have
the genetics for it. And and not only
that, but I like being rational. I like
having my sober mind. I think that's
actually a sacred thing uh to have
unimpaired reason. So the thought of
losing control and and even being
tempted to get into, you know, worse
things, I just thought it's just not
worth the risk. So it's just never for
me.
>> Well, how much, by the way, sorry, do we
have time? Is it is it how much do you
think um CO warped not just your
generation, but everybody? I I because I
I have this this theory that that there
was this thing that broke for us with co
and um and that nobody's really come to
terms with how traumatic that was for
for everyone
>> and especially for the younger
generations. I think severely less for
the older generations, but for the
younger people missing the graduations,
missing critical years in school, that's
when the socialization happens. That's
when you learn to get along. And so you
think about how this generation is going
to grow up having two to three lost
years uh you know no sports, no school,
no extracurriculars, vacations, it's
devastating and we already had a problem
with that isolation, social dislocation,
loneliness. I can't even imagine. So
it's going to be devastating, I think.
But that's a lockdown, you know.
>> So maybe if you're watching this video
after this, you know, put your phone or
computer away, go outside, make a
friend, just do anything but scroll to
the next video. Back in the day during
Nickelodeon they had go outside day.
>> Oh yeah.
>> You know I feel like we need we need
like one day a week where it's mandated
in a tech oligarch sense that no one can
go on their phone or use the computer.
>> Man, I would love that. I mean that's
one thing is if we could the one thing
we could all agree on. The way I see it
now is you're all carrying around a bag
of heroin in your in your pocket.
Everybody is. And it's it's probably
even more dangerous in some ways.
>> Would either of you guys ever run for
office?
>> Are you asking me for real?
>> Yeah.
>> Um no.
I think that that politics, the way that
my dad engaged in it, and that I'm
obviously incredibly biased, is an
incredibly noble thing. But that's not
that's not where my head is in terms of
what I want to do. I want to reach my
whole thing is is that forget all of
this. I want to reach a million people
in addiction. I think one of the biggest
things about addiction, one of the
reasons why it is is uh that continues
to be this um you know, epidemic is that
we don't talk about it. is that you
don't even talk about it around your
dinner table. And what you realize if
you're coming from my particular unique
situation is that everybody comes to me
and they give me they tell me their
story. And sharing that is like, you
know, breaks that cycle of shame. And so
I want to reach a million people in
addiction. How about you, Nick? Would
you ever run for office?
>> I don't think so. No. Um, just because
you can't I don't think you can fully be
authentic when you're running for office
because you uh it's a different role.
And I think my role they say according
to the Overton window idea,
>> ideas that are inside the Overton window
are ideas that are politically safe.
[music] The public is ready to accept
them.
>> They say that if you want to change
people's opinions and uh what they
consider acceptable, you kind of have to
be the first to the punch and maybe
considered a bad person or evil or
whatever in order to promote your view.
And so that just doesn't lend itself to
that kind of uh politics. So I think to
protect my own integrity and
authenticity of the message, I have to
not run for office.
>> See what we just did? We just made
probably the entire audience happy. One
half is glad I'm not running. The other
half is really glad he's [laughter] not
running.
>> If not you guys, then is there any
candidate or prospective candidate that
you feel like could run in 2028 that
would, you know, have a fair shot that
y'all support?
>> Nobody in particular for me. Honestly, I
haven't really been too impressed with
who's come out of the Republican party.
So, I'm hoping they'll just be somebody
we haven't heard of. Somebody maybe that
hasn't been in office before.
>> He's voting for Gavin Newsome in 20.
>> That's right. Yeah. Well, if it's
Newsome Advance, I'd certainly think
about it.
>> Yeah.
>> How about you? Anybody that you know
>> creates a twinkle in your eye?
>> No, I think that there are a lot of
people. I mean, I know that you think
that you're going to laugh at me, but I
I I personally like Gavin Newsome a lot.
I think that um he's authentic in those
beliefs whether you whether you agree
with them or not. Thomas Massiey's uh
principal stand as it relates to to um
the Epstein files was incredibly
courageous.
>> Do not let the Senate muck this bill up.
I am sorry if one of your billionaire
donors is going to get embarrassed cuz
he went to Rape Island
>> and that's why he's not going to be a
congressman anymore. But that's why, you
know, he could potentially make a really
strong national candidate. And you guys
think America will exist in a
postepstein capture freeway?
>> Will America exist?
>> Yeah. Like, you know, will America
survive the current power structures
strangle hold on the media, the
political system, and all public
affairs?
>> I don't know. I I think AI is going to
really be transformative. It's
interesting. Nobody seems to be talking
about that.
>> Transformative in what sense? Like for
for bad
>> concentration of power. That's the
biggest single biggest. And you know
what? I'm actually on the liberal side
on this with anthropic over the let's
say you know because there's this battle
between these effective altruists
effective accelerationists and I really
am nervous about what's going to happen
especially in the next four years
because they're racing towards this
artificial general intelligence
artificial super intelligence and that
without a doubt is going to be the
single biggest influence on the country
and so I'm really worried about that
>> and what about that concerns you is it
surveillance
>> it's the concentration of power in the
hands of whoever controls it. Whichever
firm is the one to develop ASI, that
could confer dictatorial like powers
upon the CEO of that company. So whether
that's Sam Alman or Daario, you know, if
the artificial intelligence is aligned
with its creator, that person will
become the most powerful person in the
history of mankind on
>> it's almost an inherent truth in my
opinion what he just said is that the
the greatest leap in uh human evolution
is going to happen within our lifetimes.
AGI let alone you know super
intelligence is everything that we think
about the way in which we exist in the
world completely changes and I don't
think that that's in any way hyperbole
and if you listen to the people that are
developing these technologies right now
they are the they are the most um
alarmist
>> I think AI will probably like most
likely sort of lead to the end of the
world
>> if you want to know what life's like
when you're not the apex intelligence
ask a chicken.
>> And now, by the way, I think that
there's an enormous possibility for
incredibly beneficial things to society
like the being able to cure cancer. I
just think of this one thing. Everything
that AI is built on is ours, belongs to
you and you and you all the way back
through the the human civilization.
That's what they're stealing from us and
they're putting it into the hands of
literally a a handful [snorts] of
people. all of that human knowledge and
and and the value that comes from it and
I think that that's ours. So any AI that
is developed particularly that goes to H
should be a it should be communal. It
should be shared in in the not just the
beneficial offshoots of it but the
actual money of it should be shared.
>> Yeah, I totally agree with that. I think
it's like nuclear bombs but it's also a
commodity at the same time. the weapons
potential, the economic potential. I
think that's going to be the biggest
thing. And I I hope on some level that
liberals win that argument because you
know what Trump is doing with the
Pentagon anthropic and open AI. The way
they're handling it is so reckless and
sloppy and and just honestly
unbelievable. So, we need some adults in
the room on that one.
>> Well, it's been a great conversation. I
appreciate you guys for coming. You guys
have any final questions you want to ask
to each other or maybe a message you
want to give to the American people? I
still believe in America and I truly
believe in these conversations and I
think everyone that's watching would
think that I would would not want to sit
down with Nick and this I guess what I'm
getting at with you is that is that I
hope you see the humanity in me and so
when the way that you that you talk in
the future takes that into consideration
and what I'll do is is I I will see the
humanity in you.
>> Yeah, I agree. I think it was a great
conversation and I think that you know
we have to come together on the things
that we agree on which is for example
that we love the country. We both
believe in America. We both want the
country to succeed and and I like what
you said that we see the fundamental
humanity in each other and I think that
you know especially in the events of the
last year the killing of Charlie Kirk
you realize that's actually not
something that that people on both sides
share. I think there's people on the
right and the left that don't see the
humanity in the other side. And so maybe
that's the new consensus or that's where
we can come together is on the basis
that you know we disagree on fundamental
issues and even sometimes it gets heated
and we yell at each other but that we do
ultimately want the best for each other.
We love each other. We want the country
to succeed and I think that's a starting
point for any solution and any
conversation.
>> All right American brothers, thank you
guys so much for your time. I really
appreciate it. Nice job. After
interviewing Hunter and Nick about a
variety of contentious topics, not
limited to, but including the Iran war
and ongoing conflict in the Middle East,
I thought to myself, you know what?
Maybe I should just go. [music] Maybe I
should apply for a visa from the IRGC
and fly to Tehran to go to a death to
America rally, after which I'll scour
the scene to find the underground
[music] culture of the city and figure
out how unveiled Tehran street folks
actually feel by the government and eat
some great food and see some sites while
I'm at it. So, I did just that with the
help of the OG Vice News Group. [music]
If you guys want to see our extensive
coverage captured in Iran, go to our
Patreon at www.patreon.com/
channel 5. If I had it my way,
everything would be free. But hiring
[music] fixers, renting equipment,
traveling across the world, and fighting
lawsuits against powerful people is
very, very expensive and timeconuming.
So, we need your support. Channel 5, as
mentioned, is a totally independent
crowdfunded newsroom. We can only make
money three ways. Merchandise, limited
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to support us and see more, again, it's
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channel 5. I'm going to put the link in
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of this video. Have a great day.
>> Channel 5 Live Worldwide, Hollywood, and
Vine.
the Authority, Channel 5 News,
CHANNEL 5. WE DON'T WITH CLUSTERS,
AND FIVE IS THE BEST NUMBER. [screaming]
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