Piers Morgan Hosts Heated Debate on Charlie Kirk's Assassination With Megyn Kelly and Nancy Mace

These people have Charlie Kirk's blood on their hands. I don't believe there's any reforming these people. I don't believe there's any shaming these people. I think these people need to be defeated. >> You've posted some messages about Charlie Kirk on your Instagram and you're laughing. >> If he had spent a modicum of his time focusing on the white youth that perhaps he would still be with us today. >> Charlie was a friend, a mentor of mine. He sit here today and listen to the discussions. I mean, I am just like in total disbelief. I've been told all week he would have hated someone like you. No, he would have respected me because I'm my own person and I know how to have my own thoughts. >> Oh, I can't even go to the grocery store alone anymore. I can't even walk my dog without a gun. >> President Trump is in the UK for an historic second state visit. The world's most famous royal family is hosting the world's most famous president for a trip that was supposed to be about diplomacy and unity, but they're not really words anyone's using right now. It's one week since Charlie Kirk was assassinated. His alleged killer, Tyler Robinson, had no reaction as he learned he could now face the firing squad. >> For the court's information, we did file just recently within the last few minutes a notice of intent to seek the death penalty. >> Well, prosecutors have released chilling text messages which appear to show that Robinson confessed to the murder to his transgender roommate and boyfriend. I had enough of this hatred, Robinson said. Some hate can't be negotiated out. Everything we know about Robinson so far, from his family's evidence to the messages scrolled on bullets, point to a screamingly ob obvious motive. But with each new revelation, many legacy media pundits have sought to minimize their relevance. >> It's not really helpful for the the tone and tenor of the radicalization of our country right now. Uh we've seen time and time again over the last year how uh people of the trans community have been blamed for a whole host of things. And so I think that putting that out there and if you look online like I do, you see a lot of people picking that up on the far right, they're looking to demonize and blames trans people. It's not helpful. >> Just to be clear, I mean, just law enforcement people, I think I don't think we know the meaning uh uh of of his message and we know his history. >> Bell Chow is an anti-fascist thing. It says fascist catch. >> Then I'll give you his then I'll give you his history. Right? Think about his history. his history and but this is not the point debating. This is what I'm talking about. That's why I wanted to tell you this is my point, not yours. This was my point, not yours. >> The point is who cares? >> A kid. This is probably his first real relationship and somebody was disparaging the person that he loved. He sat on that building for 30 minutes before he took the shot. Why did he wait until the first word trans came up, then he took the shot? >> You think he heard it? You could he could hear it. >> I think he could hear it. I think he also I don't believe he was motivated politically. I think this was motivated emotionally. >> What the hypocrisy is astounding. For what it's worth, I don't think tying these tragedies to party politics is particularly helpful. The common theme is deeply disturbed people who spend too much time on the dark corners of the internet and have no purpose in life. But if a liberal star had been gunned down by Christian Family Values assassin from the right, how many of these people who would be would now be yelling, "Who cares?" And didn't President Biden hold a national address to say MAGA Republicans were the nation's greatest danger? If you care about motives, it works both ways. And on the subject of dishonesty and hypocrisy, the attorney general Pam Bond is facing a bipartisan backlash for saying this. >> There's free speech and then there's hate speech. And there is no place, especially now, especially after what happened to Charlie, in our society. >> Do you see more law enforcement going after these groups who are using hate speech and putting cuffs on people so we show them that some action is better than no action. We will absolutely target you, go after you if you are targeting anyone with hate speech, anything. And that's across the aisle. There is no first amendment. Why am I telling this to the American Attorney General? There is no first amendment exception for hate speech. As many guests have reminded me on the show since we launched, you can and should be repulsed by the people mocking Charlie Kirk and his grieving family. But the organized witch hunt searching for reasons to hound them out of their jobs feels a little bit too close to the cancel culture that the right quite rightly have always tried to resist. Let's not forget that Charlie Kirk died fighting that kind of culture. Well, joining me now is the host of the Megan Kelly show, Megan Kelly. Megan, great to have you on our set. I just want to start by saying how sorry I am to you uh for on a personal level for the loss of Charlie Kerr because I watched you on the day it happened. I saw how emotional you were. I saw how much this had personally affected you and it really moved me. And so just on a human level, I'm just I'm really sorry for you and your loss at losing your friend. Just turning to the reaction though, so many parts of this really concern me. Obviously, the the killing itself horrific that someone should be shot dead for their opinions. the way that so many on the woke left, young people so gleefully raced to celebrate this on social media, joyously celebrating and reing in this brutal murder of a young father and then to watch the very liberal skewed mainstream media. You and I talked about this a lot, but look at the tortured ways they are trying so hard to avoid saying the obvious about this shooter and trying to find something, anything to excuse what he did. All of it is grotesque. >> Yeah, first of all, thank you for that, Piers. It was a devastating day and unlike anything I've ever experienced or want to experience again. You know, Charlie and I weren't the kind of friends who were meeting for dinner, but I'd had him on my show over 15 times in the past year and a half. Like, I'd had him on tons of times. I've been on his show tons of times. Uh, we done we did a bunch of Turning Point events together and I spoke with him many times backstage. And so, I felt like I knew him as a friend >> and knew what he stood for. Not to mention all the countless hours I've seen him on these college campuses and all the prep you do when somebody's coming on your show. So, >> I do feel like I knew who he was. I really do. And he was total goodness. I mean, he was truly a happy warrior. The picture that's being painted of him by his detractors now bears no resemblance whatsoever to the man I knew. And they didn't. They didn't because I see the few who will bother to offer evidence of their views that he was this terrible guy, a racist, what have you. Um, it's helpful. I appreciate when they say why they thought that because I'm familiar with almost all of the incidents that they use to batter Charlie and they're fake. It's fake news. Charlie was honestly the most optimistic person in our movement. I mean, I was saying to Tucker last night, I say to you, too, I think the rest of us are way more cynical mofos than Charlie ever was. You know, we've been in the business a long time. We're pretty cynical. That what that's what happens to you when you're a news person. Charlie wasn't a news person. He was like a prophet in some ways who was speaking the good word while using those biblical principles to try to persuade people over to his political worldview. And and it gave him like an optimism and a happiness and a joy and a a benevolent kindness in dealing with these kids on college campuses that frankly the rest of us have probably lost a long time ago. At least I certainly have. And that leads me to my point in response to your second point. I don't believe there's any reforming these people. I don't believe there's any shaming these people. I don't believe reaching out across the aisle will do anything to improve things with these people. I think these people need to be defeated and we need to move on from them. You know, I don't want anything bad to happen to them. But the answer, as far as I can see, is to grow our own ranks. That's it. We have to drown out their voices. We have to answer their voices with our own. We have to grow more conservatives and independents who are sane and would never back political violence. There's so many people I detest on the left. I mean, it's a long list. Whose death I would never dream of celebrating. Never. There's only one right response when somebody gets assassinated or murdered and it's my god, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry for their family and their friends. What is the world coming to? And so there's no convincing them they've made an error or that we should all get along and they shouldn't celebrate our deaths. We just have to keep saying all the things that we've been saying and say it louder and more compellingly and do it from fortified spaces so that we cannot be hurt while doing it. >> Yeah. You know, I even as we were still pouring over the horrific fallout from Charlie's murder, you saw the scenes outside the courtroom for Luigi Manion, right? who for some bizarre reason, you know, having walked up to a a guy he didn't know, a health executive, uh, and assassinated him in cold blood. For some reason, he's become a hero to these people on the woke cliff. To the extent that when the terrorism charges were dropped against him, they've all out here doing this, celebrating, dancing in the streets, like this was a joyous moment to be alive. Uncensored is supported by One Skin, a self-care business founded by scientists. Their patented OS1 peptide is scientifically proven to target aging at the cellular level. It's what powers their skin and sunare products. Now, it's targeting age related hair loss and thinning too. One skin scalp serum OS1 hair is getting rave reviews as you can read for yourself. And it's not just talk. One skin scientist did a clinical study showing that after six months, participants had significantly thicker and denser hair. If you're ready to give OS1 hair a try, you can get 15% off your first 3 month supply with the code peers atkin.co. >> I'm sorry, but these people have Charlie Kirk's blood on their hands. They 100% have Charlie Kirk's blood on his on their hands because this is what you get when you celebrate political violence. You get more of it. >> What do you think this shooter Charlie's shooter thought was going to happen to him? He thought that he would become a hero >> amongst certain pockets on the left and he has he has just go on blue sky >> and that fermentss more political violence. I mean there >> there should be universal condemnation universal condemnation. Now that the left is saying, "Oh, it's cancel culture to to fire people who are celebrating Charlie's death." That's ridiculous. If you want to say you didn't believe Charlie was a good guy and you didn't believe in his messages, go for it. You shouldn't be fired from your job for that. But if you are celebrating the murder, the political assassination of anyone, you absolutely should be fired. Who in their right mind would continue employing you or want you to be around their clients or >> customers employees? It's really interesting, Megan, you say that. I just had that very conversation with my team here, right, when we were prepping for today's show and I said, you know, I just done a podcast and I was like ruminating about how I'd responded to this and I said, you know, to me the line is very clear, which is that free speech doesn't cover incitement to violence or acts of violence or anything to do with actual violence. And I'll come to what JK Rowling has said today about speech being violent, how absurd that is because of what it leads to. But I said, you know, when it comes to free speech though, it doesn't mean you're not accountable for things you then say, right? You That's right. >> You could be protected from any legal ramifications against you by government. That's why Pam Bondi was so insane to say what she said. >> Correct. >> Because she didn't seem to understand the law or the first amendment. A little worrying with an attorney general, even as she's now tried to backtrack. But but the reality is if you're a doctor, a nurse, a a professor at Harvard, if you're a teacher in a kindergarten school, whatever it may be, if you have a job like that and you are seen gleefully celebrating somebody's murder, then it is highly likely your employer will take a view that you are inappropriate for that position. And I said to my team, you know, if one of you said this, honestly, if one of you reveled publicly on social media in in somebody's murder like this, I said, I wouldn't want you here. And we all kind of agreed nobody would want that person there. But that that's not that's not an infringement of your free speech rights in terms of a government coming after you or the law. It's just accountability for what you say with employers. >> And frankly, let me let me put it one step further. As somebody who used to practice law for 10 years, if you had someone on your staff who openly celebrated a political assassination and and made the point that murder can be good depending on its its aims and its intent, uh, and then and you continued employing that person and then they hurt somebody else on your staff who may have said something politically that they didn't like, you'd be sued. >> You there'd be a good case against you for allowing it, for continuing to endanger the employees who work for you. There's every incentive to get rid of somebody who doesn't show basic humanity. That doesn't seem to be too much to ask. And again, that is to be distinguished from people who just say, "I didn't like him. I don't believe you're saying the right legacy about Charlie. I'll fight you on whether he was good or bad." That's fine. That that's quintessentially American. I think that's well within the bounds of appropriate speech. Even in the wake of a tragic death like this, I don't like it. I I don't think it's the right timing. I definitely did not think after Luigi Manion killed Brian Thompson of United Healthcare, it was the time to debate whether our insurance companies are good or bad. Maybe we can have that discussion, but you don't have that in response to the political violence or you encourage more of it. >> Correct. Um, but the loss of humanity is a both fireable and b deeply troubling and it's growing. And there were two recent surveys of our country >> and where people stand on whether political violence is ever justified. And one showed that 55% of liberals said it is >> and one showed that 34% of liberals said it is. >> And both surveys showed very low single digits like 7% of Republicans say sometimes it is. So this is a leftist problem and the reason it remains a problem I mean there's many reasons why it's a problem but the reasons it remains a problem is the thing that you just showed where the left first of all refused to accept as we saw early on first of all it was Charlie Kirk who was shot it was not some left-wing member of the squad god forbid I don't want anything to happen to them either it was Charlie Kirk it was very clear aams razor the likelihood of why this guy was killed and then it came out what was on the bullet casings which were very clearly leftist messages which they refused refused to accept on the leftwing media. They tried to say you might have been a groper, which is a far-right person who follows Nick Fuentes. Um that was obviously not true given what was written on these bullet casings. And the first the bullet casing that shot Charlie from the bullet that shot Charlie was notices bulges uh ow which is a furry meme and the furry culture is very closely linked to the trans culture. >> And many of us went out there and called a spade a spade and said that that's how this appears to be. the left melted down. Can't be, can't possibly be. And then sure enough, what do we find out? That the shooter has a trans slashfurry quote boyfriend who's the middle of transitioning from male to female, which by the way is not a thing, cannot be done, >> and is writing him love notes about there's too much hate coming out of Charlie and he's fallen into leftwing ideology. And now the left messaging instead of saying, "Okay, you were right. >> Sorry. we're gonna really have to take a look at our own messaging around these issues says what does it matter Juliet Cayam what what does it really matter what the motivation was you know maybe he was just some nutcase and that that's my final point he wasn't a nutcase I am totally open-minded to it was a nutcase and you really can't ascribe too much to the particular motivations I mean at some level everybody who takes another person's life in this fashion has to be a bit off but this guy wasn't Pierce he wasn't one of those guys Like take the guy who killed the poor Arena on the light rail train in North Carolina. Clearly that man is mentally deranged and may have had other motivations that were connected to his mental derangement, but he this is not a sane person. It's very clear. The issue in that case is judges who wouldn't lock him up knowing that he was insane. Just turned him back out on the rest of us because they knew he was violent, a criminal, and insane. >> The issue here is there's there's no hint of insanity. This guy seems to have been very much together. This was truly a political assassination. And I heard Charles CW Cook of National Review say it beautifully, which was, you look back at why Reagan was killed by John Henley. Not killed, shot by John Henley. Um, he was a nutcase. He went to the mental asylum. He was doing it to impress Jodie Foster. That's not somebody who's moved by political rhetoric against Reagan. But look at who killed Martin Luther King. That was political violence. He was against the civil rights movement. He was a racist. Yes. The motivation does matter. The left would never dispute that if you held those two cases up. And this case seems pretty clear. We're dealing with a sane young man who was politically motivated to take down Charlie Kirk. How did he get there? What were the influences? Totally fair questions that need to be honestly answered >> 100%. Ju just a final point before I let you go, Megan. I know you got a busy day. the the language that people have used on the left for so long about Trump and Trump supporters, Hitler, Nazis, fascists. when you see the anti-fascist insignia on the bullets with one of the bullets. I've felt for a long time that if you keep using those analogies, those grotesque analogies about Trump and his supporters, then eventually people on the left who are slightly unhinged, who've been radicalized, they're going to think logically in their twisted way. They're going to think, well, if this is actually the new Hitler, if these really are the new Nazis, they represent an existential threat to America, I need to kill them. I It's a logical way to look at it if you genuinely believe they are Hitler and the Nazis or the new fascists. And that's been my issue with that language for so long. And it's got to stop, hasn't it? Because I can see how a twisted mind hears that all the time and believes it. Yes. And yet there will be no stopping them. If they didn't learn that lesson after Butler, >> they're not going to learn that lesson, right? >> They they really believe it. First of all, some collection of them really believes that Trump and his supporters are fascists and all white supremacists and Nazis. So they they're not going to back off of it. They're they're committed to that rhetoric because they think it's truthful. >> And secondly, there is a part of them that is enjoying the political violence. You know, I mean, back to the polls I just referenced, there is a an unhealthy faction on the left that would like to see more people on the right get killed, actually get killed. >> And honestly, you look at the difference between right now, the left is bringing up the murder of this uh house speaker in the state of Minnesota a few months ago. This terrible murder by a nutcase. This guy was nuts. Okay, it's back to the crazy people who are out there everywhere in the world. Um, the difference between that murder and Charlie Kirk's murder is there wasn't a single solitary right-winger who celebrated that woman's death. And there wasn't a single solitary right-winger who demonized her as fascist or Nazi or what, pick your term, prior to her death, >> she was the victim of a crazed madman who, if anything, said he was motivated by the Democratic governor Tim Walsh and him him telling him to get demons. Uh but the point is the the reactions both before and after the assassination were marketkedly different. >> Yeah. >> Just like on the on the hate speech comment by Pam Bondi. Pam Bondi got shamed out of her position yesterday by the right because most of us on the right are consistent with our positioning. And when we heard her say such an asinine inane thing, we clobbered one of our own. The left wing doesn't do that. And while I've received lots of nice messages from some more reasonable leftists in response to Charlie's assassination, and I do appreciate it, it's not enough to feel it privately. You you have to police your own side. You have power over your lefties in a way I don't. >> So it I can't fix it even if I want to. And I don't actually believe it's I I think it's fool's gold to even try. But I'd love to see them give it an effort on the left. >> Megan, it's great to have you. You're going out on tour for the first time with your brilliant show. Uh I was booked to appear with you in Miami. Some people have said to me because of all this, will I still be appearing with you in Miami? And the answer is yes. Because frankly, to all those who want to intimidate people like us from uh not being able to express our honestly held opinions, [ __ ] them. So I will see you in Miami. >> Piers, you gave me the chills. I love you for saying that and for doing that. And yeah, come hell or high water, I will see you in Miami. >> I look forward to it. Take care, Megan. >> You, too. >> US national debt is more than 37 trillion, and these are uncertain times for the global economy. It's enough to make you think maybe now would be a good time to buy some gold. Whether it's a hedge against inflation, peace of mind during global instability, or just sensible diversification, Birch Gold Group believes that every American should own physical gold. And they've created something special. Until the 30th of September, if you're a firsttime buyer, Birch Gold is offering a rebate of up to $10,000 in free metals on qualifying purchases. To start the process, request a free information kit now. Just text peers pie rs to 989898. Make right now your first time to buy gold and take advantage of a rebate of up to $10,000 when you buy before the end of September. Text my name peers to 989898. Claim your eligibility and get your free information pack. Again, just text peers to 989898. Well, joining me on the panel to discuss all this is Riley Gaines, the host of Gains for Girls on Outkick.com, Jillian Michaels, host of Keeping It Real, Brian Shapiro, host of Pushing the Limits, and Lucas Bane, better known as the amazing Lucas. Okay, well, welcome to all of you. Brian Shapiro, I have been I was sickened by what happened to Charlie Kirk. Let's just I think we can probably all agree, I hope we can all agree it was sickening. Although I had Destiny on the other night who couldn't bring himself to condemn it because Donald Trump hadn't said the right thing for him which I think is a lamentable piece of moral cowardice. Um so let me just start by asking you I presume you condemn and were horrified by what happened to Charlie Kirk. >> Absolutely. I was on the air Pierce when it all happened. I got emotional. The first thing I thought about were his kids and his family. This is not only bad for Charlie Kirk obviously and bad for his family. It's bad for America. And I also feel for everybody that was traumatized that was there that day that had to see that. Now, with that being said, of course, I didn't agree with basically anything that Charlie Cook Charlie Kirk stands for. But with that being said, anybody that's celebrating his death, I think that's despicable and it's disgusting. And I've called that out and I've been very consistent on my opinions since day one. If there's one thing that me and Charlie Kirk uh certainly agreed on, it's civil discourse and having political debate. I enjoy doing this show, Pierce. And I enjoy having respectful discussions with people that I disagree with. So, this is a horrible, horrible situation. We could never condone political violence, no matter what side of the aisle it comes from. >> Why have so many people on the far left, the woke left, been so brazen in their gleeful celebration of what happened to Charlie Kirk? >> Well, my response to that, number one, is I'm not on the far left, so I certainly don't speak for them. But there's people on both sides of the aisle. I know Republicans don't want to hear that. But there are crazy lunatics on both sides of the aisle that celebrate really horrible things that happened to people in America. I don't agree with them. And if you're on the far left or the far right and you celebrate anybody getting murdered, then there's something wrong with you. And I don't feel bad for any of those people that were fired for celebrating his death. I think it's disgusting. Now, if you're just talking about him and saying, "Well, he wasn't a good guy. Here's why I didn't like him. Here are some of his quotes that he said in the past. I don't think you should be fired for that. I think there's a way to call out political violence and say Charlie Kirk didn't deserve this. I feel for his family, but I didn't like Charlie Kirk and I didn't like what he stood for. I think you could make both points respectfully. >> Okay. Lucas has been um been pointed out to me that you've posted some messages about Charlie Kirk on your Instagram, which we're going to show here. One is a post that's a parody of a Jubilee debate. I'm doing one of these myself soon. Uh titled Charlie Kirk versus Bullet. Can one bullets of a neck outsmart one conservative? Well, that was a short watch. Number two is a mockedup promotion poster called Kirk and Twerk at neck of the woods and hashtag both Charlie Kirk and his widow. And the third was an image of a surprise, a summarize titled God works in mysterious ways with the hashtag Charlie Kirk killing and praying hands as an emoji. And you're laughing as I show these. Why do you find this funny? >> Well, let me just say that I actually am a big advocate for dark humor and I happen to to have gotten a bit of a taste of that over the last I don't know maybe decade or so when it came to the right. uh and their memes of George Floyd uh you know happy birthday being sober for five years when it came to their memes of Bana Taylor when it came to their memes of Trayvon Martin the Trayvon challenge right uh when it came to their me memes of Tamir Rice so um I I I don't know what the issue is I think I'm engaging in the s in the freedom of speech that the right has been advocating for for these last 10 years and mocking and making light of of black death something that Charlie Kirk himself uh did time and time again a matter of fact, I would argue that if Charlie Kirk, instead of focusing his time on black culture and black-on-black crime, if he had spent a modicum of his time focusing on the white youth, that perhaps he would still be with us today. >> Are you pleased he's dead? >> No, absolutely not. >> So, how did you feel about I don't think >> How did you feel about his murder? >> How do I feel about his murder? >> Yeah. Well, I think uh a quote by a great author um sums up the sentiment of millions of Americans around the world and that is some cause happiness wherever they go, others when they go and I think that's a sentiment that is uh palatable uh amongst many Americans around the world due to the hate and vitrial and bile that Charlie Kirk swed. I think there was a >> So, just to be clear, unless I misheard you, then you are you are happy he died? No, I don't think as far as happiness is is an emotion that uh >> you literally just read me a quote which implies you're happy. >> You talked about some people bring happiness. >> The purpose of the quote was to say that there are some people uh who have caused harm and death and turmoil to other groups of people such as Charlie Kirk, whether it's black people, whether it's, you know, trans people. I heard I heard the quote, but just to be clear, you said that the quote ends in that that their death brings happiness, but you've denied that you were happy, but when you tell me a quote like I don't disagree. >> When you tell me a quote like that, I presume from that quote, you're implying that actually you are happy he died because he deserved it. He had it coming. >> No, not at all. I don't think those are ever words that I've ever mentioned uh verbatim ever. I think uh there is a sentiment that when someone who lives their life in evil and wickedness according to the scripture you the power of life and death is in your tongue and the hate and the vile and the venom that he spewed. I don't know what to tell you is as the scripture says as he professed you live by the sword you die by the sword. I think his focus should have been on a community that, you know, clearly is in problem that I find it interesting that there's more uh scrutiny on people who may make memes memes that they've done of George Floyd and other black victims than on the white male youth that did this uh this tragedy as some would call it. >> Why would you be why would you be offended about the memes to people like George Floyd, which I found contemptable at the time, if they're the same ones that you're talking about? Why would you profess to be offended by those if you're quite happy to do the same kind of thing yourself? >> I think the point that I'm making by the means that I'm putting out, which clearly has caused outrage and triggering, I find it a bit hypocritical that the people for years who said [ __ ] your feelings are now overwhelmed with feelings at the moment. Um, but the point that I was making was to point out the hypocrisy that the right has on a variety and myriad of issues as we just saw with Pam Bondi on uh the freedom of speech. Um, I think the issue is that they have scapegoed people like Pam Bondi um for what is the crime of Donald Trump. The same thing they did with Anthony Fouchy. Um, we saw this when it came to the Second Amendment. Uh, they banned bump stock ban. They did had a bump stock ban under Donald Trump while they were fearongering about Biden taking away your guns. But as we saw, there was no outrage. There was no protest. And we come to find out that it was unconstitutional. So, I think this hypocrisy is is ubiquitous within the right. And I think my memes expose that hypocrisy. >> And what about your own personal humanity? I mean, hashtagging hashtagging his widow in a mocked up promotion poster of Kirk and Twerk at Neck of the Woods. How do you justify targeting Well, hang on. How do you justify targeting his widow? >> I I think that's a bit disingenuous to use such uh hyperbolic language as targeting. I think it's more of a a strategic uh plan of attack to get the message out to more people. When we saw Erica Kirk, she had a moment to to speak for unity within the country left and right and she chose to fundra. She then chose to use the scripture and talk uh you know very nicely of her, you know, past husband and I understand that. But by that same token, there are people who were absolutely harmed by the rhetoric that Charlie Kirk put out. And that rhetoric actually codified in many cases in many states. So I think it's it's abhorrent and actually perverse to expect people who were harmed by his rhetoric by harmed by someone who had anti-lack, anti- uh you know, anti uh anyone who wasn't white and Christian in his perspective. Um, I think it's I think it's perverse to try and criticize those people or try and make them seem as if they're the bad guys when that's >> Yeah. But see, funny enough, I I can look at what you've done and I can see somebody who is abhorrent and despicable and actually evil actually the stuff when you target someone's widow as she grieavves. >> Once again, I disagree with the word targeting. I think I'm talking about me. I'm talking about me personally. my view of what you've done. I don't care about your motivation in terms of other people's inappropriate memes, many of which I may well agree with you about, but that doesn't mean that I then go and do it myself or worse because that makes me even that makes me even more inhuman and abhorrent and by your definition. I think I know you disagree. I'm just telling you I'm just when it comes to Republicans, when it comes to I think I'm a mirror what they have shown. I'll let you have your say. If they don't like what they see, they should actually detour. >> I'm using your own I'm using your own justification to tell you what I think of you and what you've done. Right. It's that's my free speech at work. Let me bring in Jillian Michaels. I mean, Jillian, look, >> you know, I saw uh Brian there nodding to some of what he was hearing there. Not all to be clear, but nodding to some of it about the hypocrisy which uh Lucas claims he is exposing with this stuff. Uh, what is your view of what he's said? It's not just how the news is told, but what's left out, which concerns me. And when a friend in the business recommended I try Ground News, I gave it a go. Quite honestly, I was impressed. It does something brilliant, which most news platforms are afraid to do. It's an app and a website that lines up coverage of the same story from across the spectrum, left, right, international, and lays it all out side by side. That kind of transparency is increasingly rare and is vital. Ground News helps you to dig in and find the facts by showing you who owns each outlet, what their bias is, and which stories are being buried. Has an especially revealing blind spot feed, which services stories being reported almost exclusively by only one side of the political divide. I want to hear every side before making up my mind. Ground News makes that possible and easy. It's independent, funded by subscribers, and not corporate interests, just like my show. And it's a tool that puts the power back in your hands. Go to groundnews.com/pers to claim your 40% discount to the unlimited access Vantage plan and see what everyone else is missing. That's groundnews.com/pers. >> I find this exceptionally sad because Lucas, you talk about how hurt you were and how offended you were by such despicable things and then you became the thing that you found the most repulsive, which is alarming. And as I mentioned, deeply saddening. Um, I would be more than happy to litigate some of Charlie's positions for you. Ijectly >> I don't think I need any litigation from a woman who tried to downplay slavery, who try to all lives matter slavery to actually purchase a black child. That's what I would argue. I don't think you need to as far as >> Would you like to discuss it because the the reality of the situation is that what I gave you whether you like it or not >> is a fact from the 1860 census and the point is not actually a bastardization of actual history. What what you cited was inaccurate. You can actually look it up. I don't know if you did. I doubt you do your due diligence. >> You clearly did not because in that study that you're citing in the study that I'm discussing it right now. in the study that you're citing, it takes in account not only the slaves, it takes in account the northern states and the southern states. So to try and implement or to say this all lives matter when it comes to slavery which is abhorent and in extreme contradiction to American history especially in this country as child slavery as black Americans is abhorent and perverse especially you who is the mother of a black child who she purchased >> right >> other to you purchased it >> by all means >> how did I Okay well I'm not quite sure what you mean by purchase she's adopted and it is illegal to purchase a child You pay? Did you pay to get that child? >> No, I paid the adoption agency study. >> It was ab like you. >> So then there was a process child. >> I believe that other people adopt >> adoption agency. >> Okay. You're you're wrong and that's defamation. >> I'm literally right to an adoption agency. >> You're literally wrong. And it's this. >> I'm literally correct. You know what you are? You know what you are, Lucas. >> Is you down? Hang on. Let me jump in here. That's what I think is Let me jump in here, Lucas. Down, please. >> Let me jump in here, Lucas. It seems to me what you did. Seems to me, Lucas, you've decided to be just as offensive as you want to be. You're now attacking people who adopt children, which is one of the most selfless things that any human being could do. Actually, >> this is literally what the right did to Dave Rubin, is it not? Fine, but what you're doing is just trying to be as offensive as possible whilst masquerading under this umbrella of well, everybody else is offensive, so that's why I'm doing it to expose all the hypocrisy. But Jillian is right. Jillian is right. You have descended the way you've just gone after you know what Lucas can unify people understand the horrible they've done. >> You have targeted Jillian for adopting a child. That is despicable. Let me bring in Riley. targeted Jillian for adopting a black child after she downplayed slavery, which I think is contradictory. >> You attacked her for adopting a child. >> Let's not misconrue my words that I'm saying. >> Oh, I heard your words. >> Let me bring in Let me bring in Let me bring in Riley. Let me bring in Riley Gains here. Riley, you've been you've been waiting patiently. >> Great rebuttal, Jillian. >> Okay, let can you speak please let the others speak, please? Okay. >> I wasn't actually allowed to talk, Lucas, but I'm more than happy actually to have you on my podcast. That's because anything comes out of your mouth. >> We can discuss all of it. >> All right. Let me bring in >> if you'd like to come on my podcast, I would be more than happy to talk. >> More than willing to have discord. >> If you're willing for discourse, let Riley Gain speak. Riley, what is what is your view of what you've been hearing? >> I mean, honestly, like it it it makes me feel tearful. Like I I have experienced all of the emotions over the past week. It has been to the day seven days. Uh, I think initially starting with total shock and disbelief and and honestly confusion. I've been so blessed in my life to not have been surrounded by death much in my family. I haven't lost really anyone close to me. Charlie was a friend, a mentor of mine. He's who who ultimately I attribute to giving me my voice, the platform that I have. I attribute that to Turning Point USA to Charlie Kirk. Uh so to lose a friend like that like I have gone through all the emotions but to sit here today and listen to the discussions that we have seen I think particularly from from Lucas whether it was about the memes that were posted whether it was about Jillian adopting a black child. I I mean I am just like in total disbelief disarray. How have we reached a point where these are the discussions that we're having and on a national stage here? Like we have Democratic elected officials who are are are celebrating the death of of uh Charlie Kirk, the best and most effective >> uh debater of our time. Activist really I think debater is is really down. >> That's not true here. She's lying. >> In what way? >> What is the lie? >> Name me one prominent Name me Name me one. Hey Riley, name me one prominent Democrat that has celebrated the death. And I I find it very interesting. You've made a living attacking transgenders. You've made millions of dollars across the country doing that. If you truly care about >> if you I didn't listen. I'm sorry you lost your friend. >> Okay, hold on a second. Yes, you in this case you have. You've made millions of dollars profiting going across the country. You've made a lot of money and you've made a name for yourself. Nobody knows who you are as a college swimmer unless you're attacking transgenders. Now, if you care about children, then why have you not criticized Donald Trump? If you care about children and women, then why have you not gone after Donald Trump for not bringing out the Epstein files? If you care about children, why don't you talk about gun control? I I'm I'm happy that that transgender is out of that volleyball uh tournament. Okay. But there's more important things that we should be talking about. And you've profited off of attacking transgenders with your hatred towards transgender people. Nobody knows who you are as a college swimmer. People know who you are because you go around the country attacking transgenders, Riley. That's who you are. >> Actually, what she's done, Actually, what she's done, Brian, very heroically, in my opinion, is she's gone around the country defending women's rights to fairness, equality, and safety. something that I'm very surprised to hear that you on the left do not do not wholeheartedly endorse and agree with. >> Pierce Pierce, let me respond to what you just said. Sure. >> If in fact Riley Gaines, by the way, Pierce, I've had this conversation on your show about transgenders. I don't think transgender women should be competing with women on the planet. Do you agree with that? However, >> I do. But here's my problem with She doesn't talk about the >> I Let me explain. She doesn't talk about the non-release of the Epstein files and real victims of sexual abuse. She doesn't criticize Donald Trump. She doesn't talk about how flags weren't at half mass after children are massacred in schools. Do you talk about transgenders? >> Let me ask you, do you talk about funny acting like everything that I've ever said on any >> Hang on, Ry. So Brian, your position is that unless you talk out publicly about every single issue that is important in the world, then it disqualifies you from talking about the issue that you not only care about most because it happened to you, but you are passionate about because it protects women's rights. Is that your position, >> Pierce? Pierce, here's my position. You don't have to talk about every single issue, but when the second leading cause of death in children is gun violence, you probably should bring that up. When we talk about MAGA Republicans who have talked about the Epstein files and horrible abuse, Maxwell was one of the largest sex traffickers in the world and the Donald Trump administration have sent her to a clock. >> Why does Riley Gains have to do all that? >> Why does Riley Gain? >> Because she says she cares. No, Riley Gains cares about Let me ask Riley Gains cares because a because a very very tall, muscular, powerful male called Leah Thomas said suddenly I'm who was a very moderate, unsuccessful male swimmer suddenly said, "I'm a woman." And then began destroying women in the women's pool. It was clearly grotesqually unfair, unequal, and actually dangerous. And and we saw the same thing happen in a boxing ring in Paris in the Olympics to be able to for Riley to be condemned by you. >> That'd be super cool. >> For Riley to be condemned by you because she doesn't also talk about other issues is absurd. Anyway, you don't critical. >> We'll come back to this. I'm just going to hold the panel here for a moment. A brief timeout. I've been joined by Republican Congresswoman Nancy Mace. Nancy, welcome back to Uncensored. Um we're here. We're just having a kind of slightly insane debate in my opinion. Um but but there's a lot of insanity flying around at the moment. Uh one of which is the utterly appalling spectacle of so many on the left openly, brazenly, proudly celebrating the murder of Charlie Kirk. How have we got here as a society? >> Well, it's insane. You can just see in the previous debate, you saw two grown men, Democrat men screaming, yelling on your program at two women. Riley Gaines is one of the brightest, smartest, youngest minds fighting for what she believes in. And we want to encourage that, not discourage it. I want I don't want to discourage anyone out there to prevent them from speaking up by getting yelled at. I was yelled out yesterday in front of Don Lemon uh the at the steps of the Capitol, you know, and all we want to do, I'm a rape survivor. All I want as a rape victim is to ensure that men aren't in my bathroom or Riley's bathroom or in the shower next to us, >> that is dangerous and it's uncalled for. But to see those men on your program yelling at the women who are just talking freely, talking in a sane and normal manner, trying to have a colloquy, trying to have a national conversation, and they're being screamed at. That's how we got here. And until the left, and until the Democrat party acknowledges their role in this, it's not going to get better. And I have to tell you, uh, it's terrifying right now to be a conservative. I am carrying my 6-h hour P365 everywhere I go. I have armed guards everywhere I go. I can't even go to the grocery store alone anymore. I can't even walk my dog without a gun because I have many so many on the left, Democrats, a lot of transgenders who are emailing, calling, trying to show up at my office threatening to kill me, my children, my family, my elderly parents, the father of my children, and I'm not going to live in fear. I'm not going to be terrified. And I'm going to figuratively fight back, figuratively push back and protect my safety today. Uh, I'm going to lead a floor debate against Alan Omar. Lucas was asking about a prominent Democrat celebrating the murder of Charlie Kirk. They're everywhere. But let's start with Elan Omah, who who's right down the hall from me right now in I'm in Congress at the Capitol, who celebrated the murder and political assassination of Charlie Kirk by by saying that people who uh were mourning his death were full of [ __ ] Excuse my language, but no. and is posting content celebrating his murder, calling Charlie Kirk a terrorist. I I I can't even with these people because they just they just won't tell the truth. And like I love having a debate. I love coming on and having conversation even when we disagree, Pierce, but there's never anything ill or negative or like I don't want to bring harm on anybody, but we have to tell the truth. And how do you unite with people who refuse to tell the truth, who continue to lie? I I just I don't know how you continue to have a conversation with these people. We have to shun them. >> Do you do you have to be Do you have to be careful? You know, I watched Pam Bondi trying to explain that hate speech is something that the attorney general believed should be pursued with the full force of the law. And I I recoiled from that as did many on the right because actually the first amendment protects hate speech. doesn't doesn't protect incitement of violence or acts of violence, but you can say hateful things and be protected under the First Amendment. And it was pretty staggering to hear an attorney general who didn't seem to realize that. Some have criticized you because you have a a hotline. you've encouraged people to call in and you know if people are saying bad things about Charlie Kirk and so on uh you know there will be people on on the left going well this is just complete hypocrisy because really what you're operating with this is a form of the very cancel culture that you and others on the right have always professed to hate what do you say to that >> well this is a cancel culture and I have voted and I've supported legislation that protects uh the freedom of speech that protects the first amendment um you know I've been out there on the Epstein files too protecting survivors By the way, there are Republicans out there who are very vocal like myself. Um, but free speech has consequences. And I'll quote Elan Omar who tweeted that you have the right to say anything you want. You have the right to those opinions, but there are consequences. And if you are around children, my particular focus is on the educational system, those that are teaching our kids or in the classroom and those who are making healthc care decisions for people. I don't want the the bias and those who are celebrating the murder of a political class, a political side that they don't agree with. They should not be making medical decisions for others and they should not be indoctrinating our kids. We look at Tyler Robinson, 22-year-old kid who has who self-admittedly murdered Charlie Kirk because he didn't like his opinions and thought he was full of hate. Uh they're they're condoning this. They're endorsing this. He was radicalized. We believe at school and in the education system, we can't allow that. I mean, when I was growing up, teachers were just normal. You had no idea what their politics were. >> And now kids are forced to say, "What are your pronouns?" And can you define a hundred genders? And you know, I just they're being influenced and inspired and radicalized. And this can't be happening. This is how we got here. And we have to admit that this is the truth and that we're going to work together to end it. And they don't want to. They don't want to. And I I just I don't know what else to do. I want to defund the schools that allow teachers that celebrate murder to stay there and stay employed. I want to defund them. And I want I want to shame these teachers out of existence. I don't want them anywhere near my kids. No. Or yours. >> Nancy M. Thank you very much indeed for joining me. >> Thank you. >> Let's go back to the panel. Uh, I mean, Brian Shapiro, did any of that give you pause for thought? >> Well, first of all, I find it ironic that Nancy Mace is talking about telling the truth, yet she's the person who blamed the shooter in the Charlie Kirk murder as a transgender. I find that very ironic. She also called me a Democrat. I'm not a Democrat. I'm a registered independent that is anti-Donald Trump. Uh, so I want to be very clear on that as well. Listen, all the Now, she mentioned Ilhan Omar. If that's true about Ilhan Omar and she made those statements, I totally disavow that. But I don't think anybody could name me three Democrats that are celebrating uh Charlie Kirk's death that are elected officials. Number two, every Democrat out there is saying this is wrong. For the most part, political violence, we should never celebrate it. And all the right is doing is blaming it on the radical left, including Donald Trump. Nancy Mace wants to say to bring people together. Donald Trump has divided us by blaming the radical left for what took place here. >> You would be blaming. Okay. But Brian, Brian, be honest. If it was the other way round and the investigators said publicly, as they have, as has the governor of Utah, that all the evidence pointed to this person being radicalized by the far right. You would not hesitate to say this was a far-right assassination and you would go on a massive rant about it. So there's a double standard there, right? >> No, you're you're wrong. You're wrong. I don't do that, Pierce. You could look at my social media. No, you're wrong. Here's what I do. I call out political violence on both sides. If you recall, Pierce wasn't right. Hang on. I don't I'm not disputing that. I'm just saying if he was a radical right, if he'd been radicalized by the right, I don't think you would be saying people shouldn't be talking about the radicalization. >> The reason why Pierce I ever bring up the radical right is because the right never takes responsibility literally for anything blamed. >> Nor is the left. >> Listen, the left having said this for years now is doing exactly the same thing. I saw Jimmy Kimmel literally I saw Jimmy Kimmel go on a rant saying this guy was a MAGA guy the shooter. Complete lie. >> Pierce, I'm gonna be I'm always consistent on this issue. It doesn't matter whether it comes from the right or the left. It's wrong. We need to call out political violence on both sides of the aisle. We should also be Democrats and But Brian, you're missing my point. We should also be unafraid to call out radicalization where we see it as a primary motivation for these assassinations. So, do you think this was a radicalization? >> I think this person was as the investigators are saying that he used >> I'll come to you in a moment, Lucas. As the investigators are saying and as the governor is saying, the governor has hit a very, in my view, sensible tone throughout all this. As they've all been saying, all the evidence is pointing to a young man who was radicalized to the left. >> Okay, so let me respond to that real quickly. So, first of all, even if that is true, I totally disagree with what Megan Kelly said. If you're somebody who wants to kill somebody because you disagree with their your beliefs, their beliefs, then there's something wrong with you. You are crazy. So, Pierce, even if that was true. Now, we know he comes from a conservative Mormon family. I don't really care what his political affiliation is. I'm grateful that his father and a transgender, by the way, who so many two people on this panel continue to attack. There's a transgender that we should be thanking the two people in this transgender got a chance to say a word yetend. >> All right, let me bring in the two women here. Let me bring in talk once. Can the two men shut up for a moment? Jillian, >> there are so many lies here. I don't know which to tackle first. The reality is that we are here because of the very things you guys are doing in this moment. You refuse to engage in any sort of intelligent dialogue or debate. You just name call. We're bigots. We're racists. This is exactly how we got here. This kind of othering, this kind of demonization. If you guys want to have an intelligent conversation about something that I have said, something that Riley has said or something that Charlie has said, I'm absolutely here for it. But in this moment, you are very clearly showing the world that you are an integral part of this problem. And it's irrelevant what side of the aisle you're on. It's a human characteristic of demonizing others. And you both have it. >> All right. Riley, can I just like take the opportunity to defend myself for a second because Brian, what you said is like the most ill-informed thing I've ever heard. Number one, to insinuate that I'm not a good athlete. As if that even matters. Okay. I'm one of the fastest Americans of all time. Can you name me three female swimmers? The reason why I said nobody would know >> three female swimmers. If you were going to talk about how no one knew me, can you name me three of the top female swimmers in this nation? >> 99% of the country, 99% of the country can't name three female swimmers. The only reason why we know who you are transgenders 247 did my athletic ability, which again uh one of the fastest in the nation and the world really for that matter when I was competing. Why did that have anything to do with any anything? Are you saying only the best female athletes, only the best of the best, only those who are winning Olympic gold medals deserve fairness? Is that what you're saying? >> Make it clear to me, please. >> What I'm saying is, >> okay, perfect. Okay, so I'm going to continue on now to say that I have not been a voice. So you don't want me to respond. This is a a recent tweet that I put out that I got a lot of flack for. I said, I serve Christ, not a politician. That >> Why won't Donald Trump release the epine? We are going to act like the proven harm and abuse of them cause never happened. His victims deserve so much better than that. There is no line to walk when it comes to sex trafficking, especially of children. To so to slander and say that I have not been a voice for I've seen victims is ridiculous. I have been a voice for the women in Muslim countries in Afghanistan and Yemen and South Sudan who are under Sharia law who don't get to get an education, who don't get to go to the gym, who don't get to to go to the doctor. Like I have been a voice for all these women. So to sit here and act like you know me number one is ridiculous and entirely >> defile can I respond. >> Okay Riley now that I'm let me ask. Okay so Riley when Donald Trump bragged about going into teenage girls locker rooms on the Howard Stern show. Are you willing to condemn Howard uh condemn Donald Trump right now on the program or the fact that he's a liable sexual abuser and a 34count felon? He bragged about going into teenage girls locker rooms. If you care which I believe you do by the way Riley. If you care about young women, are you willing to condemn Donald Trump for going into teenage girls locker rooms without their permission? >> I think any man who violates a woman's privacy, safety, fairness when it comes to athletic competitions is detestable and condemnable. Easy peasy lemon. >> My qu Hey, Pierce. Pierce. Pierce, this is why I bring this up. I'm so glad she said that. She went back to transgenders and she didn't answer my question. So, I will try to ask it again. said nothing about trans. It's telling that you insinuate women. You just said fairness is I'm talking the the galvanizing that was made by Julian. >> Can I just finish this way? She won't condemn. She won't condemn Donald Trump for anything. >> You sound like a little child who's throwing a hissy. >> I think that would include to be fair. I think that includes she won't answer the question. >> All right, let me let me bring in the question. Let me bring in Lucas respon Lucas response. She to be fair, she didn't name him by by name, but I think that would include Donald Trump. But to bring up as far as the galvanizing, which is I think what we're witnessing is is gaslighting and political schizophrenia at at at its peak. Because when we talk about galvanizing, we have to look at the body of work that Charlie Kirk did. Whether it was to once again dehumanize uh black people, to say that black women were low IQ and and non-deserving and non-deserving of their positions, right? whether it was to bastardize as far as a a black American lexicon, whether it was the perversion of woke or whether it was the perversion of black fatigue, something that was crucial to black history even till this day, whether it was the perversion of CRT. Um, I think it's absolutely diabolical to say that this is coming from the left when Charlie Kirk spent most of his life to do that. I think when he talks about uh uh black death, when it's Trayvon Martin, uh Bana Taylor, all these people that he vilified, all these people that he could care less about, but you want to know something? There's not one mention of of Daniel Schaefer. I mentioned Daniel Schaefer. White man killed police brutality. It's not one mention of Jared Lackey on any of his posts. I mentioned Jared Lackey. White man tased to death, police brutality. There is not one mention of Kelly Thomas. There is not one mention of Ryan Whitaker killed, shot in the back, white man because he was playing video games too loud. So to say that they care about, oh, police brutality, they care that that it's not galvanizing, they are galvanizing Charlie Kirk and other people like him are galvanizing their audience to ironically to promote a white victimhood complex >> on on a certain group of of white individuals who feel disassociated with society currently. All right, Brian. Hold fire. >> Same thing that they argued that was happening. I heard you, they are now prophetizing. I just want to ask Jillian. >> You made your point. Brian Brian, I'm going to come back to you in one moment. We're going to bring in another guest now, Jeffrey Star, who's a cosmetics influencer. Uh, thank you very much indeed for joining me, Jeffrey. You've gone viral. >> You've gone viral this week for this Tik Tok live. >> He encouraged everyone to speak about their beliefs, whether he believed them or not. Am I a Republican? No, I'm a person. Because I'm standing up for someone that passed away, I'm now being called names in the chat. This is what's wrong with a lot of you people. You will never get bar in life. You are sick in the head. Someone just said they're unsubscribing from me. Thank God. Please. Cuz if you believe in vain them, you're part of the problem. If you're so stupid enough to go against science, please unfollow me. >> Now, Jeffrey, what what happened to you as a consequence of that going viral? Um, so about a 100,000 people have unfollowed me this week for speaking about Charlie, the entire thing. I can't believe so many people in America are cheering and praising his death. It's honestly disgusting. So, while I was live streaming, I found out about what happened in real time and it was so horriying and devastating. I've followed him for a few years. Do I agree with everything he's ever said? Of course I don't. But I loved a lot of what he said and it resonates with me. But the good news is is hundreds of thousands of more people have followed me and they're on the exact same page. So I don't care about the following. It's not about that. I just had to speak my mind. >> Have you been surprised uh shocked, depressed by the reaction? Um I mean I've been I genuinely stunned. I thought I'd seen everything in the news game going back 40 years. But to see the outpouring of gleeful celebration of a young man's murder for expressing his opinions and a young man who would deliberately go into, you know, the opposition territory college campuses and get people to line up and say, "Come on, come and argue with me in a respectful way." The idea that he gets murdered for doing that all the time seemed particularly perverse to me. Were you How did How did you feel about it? I was honestly horrified because I'm someone that's always been outspoken. I love the truth. And for some reason, people are afraid of the truth. I've been told all week he would have hated someone like you. No, he would have respected me because I'm my own person and I know how to have my own thoughts. >> So, when I found that when I saw it in real time, I was completely devastated. I can't believe someone that has an opinion is now dead. It's disgusting. >> Yeah. Brian, I mean, when you hear that, do you find it disgusting the reaction that Jeffrey's had? >> Yeah, absolutely. 150% I think anybody who uh celebrates Charlie Kirk's death is absolutely disgusting. And I applaud you for, you know, doing the right thing and being a good human being and saying this is horrible. Charlie Kirk didn't deserve this. I feel for his kids and his family. Doesn't mean we have to agree with everything Charlie Kirk stood for, which obviously I don't. But for the people that are attacking you on social media, I mean, I've gotten death threats as well. It's despicable and I feel for you. We should be able to have a respectful dialogue about Charlie Kirk and I would certainly welcome that with Jillian. And I have some questions for her if we have the time. >> Well, ask her now. >> Well, Jillian, hi. Hi, Jillian. I I agree with you. I think uh respectful conversation and political discourse is good. It's one thing I have in common with Charlie Kirk. Here's what I would say ask you about. The day Paul Pelosi was bludgeoned with a hammer. The day after that, Charlie Kirk went on his podcast. He made jokes about it. And on his show, he asked his listeners to donate to the person who tried to kill Paul Pelosi. Are you willing to admit that that's also wrong because Charlie Kirk did that on his show? >> If Charlie Okay. If Charlie did that, I I 100% agree with you. I haven't seen that. a lot of the stuff that I have seen and experienced with Charlie, he advocates consistently against violence. So, if he did that, I am in 100% agreement with you. And in fact, came prepared today to talk about this kind of violence and othering on both sides. And I could talk about in I believe it was 2016 when Donald Trump talked about people who believe in the Second Amendment going out and taking care of some of these politicians who didn't agree with him. because I think the othering and the demonization and the labeling is devastating our culture and it is literally getting people. So if Charlie did that then I agree with you on that. I'm unfamiliar with it. I'd have to watch it myself. >> Right. So Jillian, I appreciate you giving me that answer. But he also said that Michelle Obama and Joy Reid uh don't have the processing brain power to be taken seriou