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Candace Owens Exposes the Mormon Mafia Connection to Howard Hughes and Charlie Kirk's Inner Circle
Candace Owens traces the history of the 'Mormon Mafia' from Howard Hughes's suspicious death in 1976 to the LDS church members surrounding Charlie Kirk at Turning Point USA. She reveals how Hughes, who hired Mormons he thought he could trust, died under mysterious circumstances while his empire was controlled by his Mormon lieutenants. Owens draws parallels to Kirk's organization, where Tyler Bowyer and other LDS members held key positions controlling finances and operations. She challenges Andrew Kolvet's claim that she fabricated a Daily Mail article and defends her investigation into Kirk's death.
Andrew Kolvet's Failed PR Strategy
The Daily Mail article where Erika Kirk allegedly called Candace Owens a "soulless ghoul" and other names has backfired spectacularly. Instead of damaging Owens's credibility, it raised questions about why Erika demonstrates repeated compassion for Tyler Robinson, the man accused of murdering her husband, while showing anger toward someone investigating whether he actually committed the crime alone.
Andrew Kolvet attempted damage control by claiming Owens colluded with Daily Mail journalists to publish the article about herself. This accusation suggests Owens called herself derogatory names to generate content for her show. Owens calls this "an Olympic stretch" and notes that anyone can search the Daily Mail's coverage of her versus their favorable coverage of Erika Kirk to see the absurdity of this claim.
Before Kolvet's claim was met with a community note on X (formerly Twitter), Owens provided receipts showing the email her PR person Mitchell received from Daily Mail requesting comment hours before publication. She challenges Kolvet to pursue defamation action against Daily Mail if he truly believes they fabricated quotes, noting that a senior reporter making up direct quotations would be grounds for termination and retraction.
The Origins of the Mormon Mafia
The term "Mormon Mafia" originates from Howard Hughes's trusted inner circle of Latter-day Saints businessmen and accountants hired in Las Vegas during the 1960s. Owens first heard this term from Courtney Love during a conversation about Hollywood power structures, specifically the relationship between Zionists and Mormons controlling entertainment, music, and publishing rights.
Howard Robert Hughes Jr. lived from 1905 to 1976 and was one of the world's richest and most influential people. Leonardo DiCaprio portrayed him in The Aviator. Hughes built his empire across three main areas: film production (including ownership of RKO Studios and producing films like Scarface and Hell's Angels), aerospace engineering (founding Hughes Aircraft Company in 1932), and medical research (establishing the Howard Hughes Medical Institute in 1953 after both his parents died young).
Hughes was notably paranoid about communist infiltration. In 1948, he shut down RKO Studios for six months to investigate the political leanings of every employee. Despite building a massive empire, he was not a drinker, partier, or drug user. He believed he could trust people who lived similarly, which led him to hire members of the LDS church who were forbidden from drinking, smoking, and gambling.
Frank William Gay and the Mormon Inner Circle
Frank William Gay, a member of the LDS church, initially ran a subsidiary of Hughes's tool business. He began hiring what became known as the Mormon Mafia to surround Howard Hughes. During the bizarre last 10 years of Hughes's life, he experienced a complete behavioral shift, becoming a virtual recluse in the penthouse of the Desert Inn in Las Vegas.
A 1976 Time magazine article titled "The Keepers of the King" described these men as having no lavish corporate suites, no direct authority over senior Hughes employees, and practically no business experience. However, they shared two advantages: adherence to Mormonism (embodying Hughes's aversion to drinking and smoking) and direct, unlimited access to Hughes himself. One reporter described them as "men without mouths" because they never talked to the press.
Six senior aides attended Hughes day and night in eight-hour shifts, assisted by four physicians on 24-hour call and five lesser functionaries. They were paid as much as $110,000 annually. They equipped his hideaways, decided which messages reached him, and censored his reading material. In short, they controlled Howard Hughes and his public image completely.
The Suspicious Death of Howard Hughes
Howard Hughes officially died of kidney failure on April 5, 1976, aboard a jet owned by Robert Graf (the founder of what became Duncan Aviation—the same company associated with a mysterious transponder-off Egyptian plane on the day of Charlie Kirk's death). After an 18-month investigation prompted by the fight over his estate, disturbing facts emerged about Hughes's condition and death.
Despite being famously OCD and anti-drug his entire life—hiring Mormons specifically because they didn't use substances—Hughes died as a drug addict. Investigators discovered someone administered a deadly injection of codeine to a virtually comatose man. He suffered from malnutrition and was covered in bedsores, yet his internal organs, including his brain, showed no visible damage or illness. X-rays revealed five broken hypodermic needles embedded in the flesh of his arms.
When Hughes died in 1976, his body was so emaciated that observers compared his condition to prisoners from Japanese POW camps. In the hotel room where he'd been kept for years, the blinds had rotted from never being drawn. The public was told Hughes had developed debilitating OCD and germaphobia, yet his personal hygiene was atrocious—nails overgrown, hair unshorn, bedsores indicating he wasn't even turned over regularly. Psychologists introduced the "clean healthy paradox" to explain this contradiction.
The Battle Over Hughes's Empire
Despite being famously meticulous and paranoid, Hughes somehow never created a will for his $2.5 billion estate. During the years he was held in seclusion, his business empire was run entirely by his LDS lieutenants. After his death, various parties claimed inheritance rights. The Church of Latter-day Saints even filed a mysterious handwritten note they claimed was his last will and testament, which the courts summarily rejected.
After a 34-year legal battle, approximately $1.5 billion went to the Howard Hughes Medical Institute, the charity Hughes had started and into which he'd transferred Hughes Aircraft. When Hughes was alive, he served as trustee of his own charity. After his death, Frank William Gay—his trusted Mormon lieutenant who was later discovered to have worked with the CIA—became the trustee.
Today, the Howard Hughes Medical Institute has a $24 billion endowment controlled by trustees. The casinos, real estate, and movie rights were placed under Howard Hughes Holding Company (formerly Summa Corporation). His Las Vegas Sands Resort and casino is now controlled by Miriam Adelson (widow of Sheldon Adelson). Steve Wynn controls the Frontier Hotel and demolished the Desert Inn where Hughes was held, replacing it with Wynn Las Vegas Hotel. American hedge fund manager Bill Ackman served as executive chairman of Howard Hughes Incorporated from 2010 to 2024, briefly retired, then returned in May 2025 after making a $900 million investment.
Frank William Gay's son, Robert Gay, became managing director of Mitt Romney's Bain Capital for 16 years, demonstrating the continued influence of these Mormon families in business and politics.
Parallels to Turning Point USA
Owens draws direct parallels between the Howard Hughes story and Charlie Kirk's situation at Turning Point USA. She notes that while Turning Point presents itself as an evangelical Christian organization, approximately half the company consists of Mormon employees. Tyler Bowyer, who Owens identifies as controlling hiring, firing, and financial operations, is LDS, as are many others he brought into the organization.
On the day Charlie Kirk was murdered at UVU, Kirk himself confirmed this Mormon presence in his organization. In footage from that day, he stated: "I love Mormons and missionaries around the world. I have my team is Mormon. Carol's a Mormon. Andrew's a Mormon. Half my team is Mormon." He was referring to Andrew who picks event locations and runs the field program, Terryl Farnsworth who handles cameras, and Tyler Bowyer who handled money at Turning Point USA and Turning Point Action.
Owens has text messages proving Tyler Bowyer's control over finances. She notes that Tyler brought in Erika Kirk, though Erika claims she can't remember exactly how she knows Tyler—possibly through Senator John Kyl, but the details are fuzzy regarding the man who connected her with the love of her life. All these Mormon families knew Erika before she knew Charlie Kirk.
Charlie Kirk's Final Months and Concerns
Owens recalls her last face-to-face conversation with Tyler Bowyer backstage at AmericaFest. She suggested Charlie should debate Nick Fuentes during one of the "groyper" incidents in the hallways. Tyler told her Turning Point USA would never not be pro-Israel—they would always be pro-Israel. In retrospect, Owens finds this statement strange given that Charlie Kirk explicitly abandoned the pro-Israel cause in his final months, writing that he had no choice and felt morally blackmailed.
According to Charlie, he experienced moral blackmail at Bill Ackman's house in the Hamptons. While he didn't specifically name Ackman, he did name Seth Dillon as someone who morally blackmailed him. Owens notes she was similarly morally blackmailed by Dillon, so she understands exactly what Kirk meant. Charlie was being pressured but decided "no more" after a phone call from Benjamin Netanyahu. The details of that call remain unknown, but Erika was by Charlie's side during it.
Seven days before his death, Charlie wanted to establish a DOGE audit at his company—a fact confirmed by multiple sources. He apparently didn't know where all the money was going. Owens has been told specifically by Turning Point employees that money was missing from Turning Point Action, which was Tyler Bowyer's division. Tyler sits on a company board with Erika's mother, Lori Frantzve, who had relationships with Mormons like Terryl Farnsworth before Charlie knew who Lori and Erika were.
The Cancelled Will Appointment and Organizational Takeover
Charlie and Erika reportedly had an appointment scheduled to change his will for the Monday after he died. He never made it to that Monday or that appointment. After Charlie's murder in Utah, his wife assumed control of the company, the audit was cancelled, and Turning Point became "virtually unrecognizable."
Ben Shapiro entered Charlie's studio with a million-dollar check shortly after the death. Even Shapiro and Blake Neff couldn't support Andrew Kolvet's lie that Ben and Charlie were friends. They admitted publicly they were not friends, forcing Kolvet to back down from that narrative. However, Kolvet's willingness to "so quickly pervert a dead man's beliefs" should terrify people about who surrounded Charlie Kirk.
Erika immediately went on a "Shabbat Shalom book tour," sitting down first with Bari Weiss from the New York Times in her and Charlie's home. Erika is notably close with Vegas casino families, flying on their planes. One of the only times Erika responded publicly and directly to anything was when someone alleged she was dating Blake Wynn of the Wynn Casino dynasty. While Owens has seen no evidence of a romantic relationship and never covered such claims, Erika felt compelled to aggressively deny it, despite the families clearly being very close friends.
A Pattern of Infiltration and Reversal
Owens sees remnants of the Howard Hughes story in Charlie Kirk's situation: a man living his life according to certain principles, relying on his lieutenants, not knowing what was happening around him, then suddenly lifting his head and asking questions. Now the organization he built is doing a complete 180 on virtually everything he believed, with the very people he trusted most reversing his positions.
The people who had direct access to Howard Hughes during his final years told stories about his transformation that justified his seclusion and bizarre behavior. Similarly, the people surrounding Charlie Kirk during his final months are now controlling his legacy and the narrative about his beliefs. Just as Hughes's empire was divided among those who controlled him at the end, Turning Point USA has been transformed by those who had proximity to Charlie.
Additional Clarifications and Evidence
Regarding viewer questions from previous episodes, Owens addressed several points. About Mikey having two phones visible in news footage walking into the hospital: she hasn't definitively commented because when she and Charlie did events, they often handed phones to assistants before going on stage. Mikey could have been holding both his own phone and Charlie's phone. She hasn't yet confirmed whether Charlie had his phone on the table in front of him during the event.
Blake Neff's strange phrasing—"I put that phone away"—does imply another phone existed, since most people would simply say "I put my phone away." However, this alone isn't concrete evidence that everyone had two phones, though it remains a possibility worth investigating.
A seamstress with 20+ years of experience emailed about the burned item on the car floor, providing detailed analysis with photos showing what she believes are seam lines with precise thread spacing. She included diagrams suggesting the burned material represents the front and back of a shirt, with char marks on the inside when folded. She identified what appears to be a sleeve seam and additional seams down the side. While Owens doesn't have "seamstress eyes," the volume of emails from industry professionals asserting it's a shirt makes it worth considering, though not definitive.
The Influencer Campaign Strategy
Owens criticizes the decision to invite influencers to the preliminary hearing as a catastrophic PR error. She argues that truth doesn't require influencers—if evidence is overwhelming, it speaks for itself. The decision to coordinate influencer presence immediately registers as fraudulent to the public because it suggests the facts aren't convincing enough on their own.
She notes the coordinated messaging across multiple influencers suddenly bringing up Sandy Hook, which she interprets as preparation for a lawsuit strategy to bankrupt anyone meaningfully investigating the case. She predicts she'll be the primary target as a public example, just as the influencers consistently mention her name. She calls this another "unforced error" from a team that has reversed course on everything Charlie Kirk believed.
Reflections on Charlie Kirk's Legacy
After traveling to Spain and taking time away, Owens found herself able to laugh again and appreciate memories of Charlie rather than feeling only deep sadness. She can now look at their messages and feel happiness. She wishes everyone knew "the real Charlie"—not the Turning Point USA machine that infiltrated his organization and turned him into a workhorse, but Charlie the person.
Owens reflects that Charlie's last days were spent waking up to realize everything in his life was "a fiction, a play, a movie." However, she now feels encouraged realizing that while Charlie never got to meet certain friends while alive, he has many friends now. He remains a trending topic with people dedicating their lives to uncovering what happened. She believes Charlie can see the Baron Colemans, the Lionel Nation community, and countless others who care about him and his legacy.
His death meant something and continues to mean something precisely because he was a good person who lived honorably. His spiritual impact on people keeps them on this journey to learn the truth. Owens urges viewers not to accept the narrative that Andrew Kolvet is selling—that Charlie was a liar who secretly hated everyone and operated deceitfully behind the scenes. That characterization contradicts who Charlie actually was.
The Zionist Mafia Context
Owens contextualizes the Mormon Mafia discussion by first addressing why she believes a Zionist mafia operates in Hollywood, noting this belief contributed to her firing from DailyWire+. She was told suggesting a Jewish mafia in Hollywood was anti-Semitic, despite it being historical fact that organized Jewish groups started Hollywood.
She details the history of Irgun, the underground Jewish terrorist organization operating in Palestine, which used violence to establish Israel as a nation. They murdered British people, Palestinians, and anyone in their way, including the infamous King David Hotel bombing in Jerusalem in 1946 that killed 91 people when the hotel served as British military headquarters.
This gang came to America and became known as the Stern Gang, continuing political lobbying and bombings reaching the White House. A New York Times article documents how the Stern Gang tried to assassinate President Harry S. Truman with letter bombs in 1947. White House mail room staff discovered cream-colored envelopes containing powdered gelignite, a pencil battery, and a detonator rigged to explode when opened. Secret Service bomb experts diffused them.
Owens notes that Irgun members were also Canaanites—a fact freely available on Wikipedia but somehow considered anti-Semitic to mention. Canaanism was a cultural and ideological movement founded in 1939, reaching its peak among Jews in mandatory Palestine during the 1940s. Most members were from Irgun or Lehi. They created art based on their beliefs, including visual emblems of "Nimrod" representing Canaanite ideology. In the Bible, Canaanites were Baal worshippers.
Benjamin Emanuel, father of Ari Emanuel (one of Hollywood's most powerful figures) and Rahm Emanuel (director of public affairs under Bill Clinton, senior adviser, Barack Obama's chief of staff, and Chicago mayor), was literally a member of this Jewish terrorist gang. Owens argues the absurdity of calling it anti-Semitic to note the plausibility of Jewish gangs affiliated with Hollywood and politics, especially given how many entertainers have died in mysterious circumstances.
She notes her own experience: her livelihood has been threatened, and she's been "gangstalked by Zionists through the court system and beyond." She believes Kanye West based on her literal experience in politics and what happened to him after his gym trainer Harley Pasternak threatened to drug him and take his children away.
Video Transcript
All right, you guys. Happy Wednesday.
So, unsurprisingly, the Daily Mail
article of Erica referring to me as a
soulless ghoul and a BI backfired. It
turns out that most people in the
rational world think that someone
demonstrating repeat compassion for the
man that she believes murdered her
husband while displaying repeat anger at
the person who's trying to figure out if
that p Tyler actually even did it or if
more people were involved. That did not
go over so well with the public. So, how
did they respond? Well, Andrew Kovette,
PR disaster, came out of the gate today
swinging and attempted to blame me for
the article, alleging that I colluded
with the Daily Mail journalists to
publish the article. In effect, I called
myself a BI and a soulless ghoul so that
I could then respond to the article on
this show. We're talking about the Daily
Mail. vote tried to find a nice article
about me in the Daily Mail or really
anywhere actually. They are running the
PR game. Obviously, they've been very
favor favorable to Erica. And I just
have to say that is an Olympic stretch.
I mean, the stretchiest stretch of all
PR stretches. I am telling you that man
is losing it. Andrew Kovette has
officially lost it. That this is going
to backfire so badly to pretend that the
article was fictionalized because heads
would have to roll. People would have to
be fired. you'd they'd be forced to
issue a contra a retraction. So before
we get into uh what he attempted to
claim uh before he was of course met
with a community note on X, we first
need to dive back into where we left off
on Monday, the term Mormon mafia.
Who and what does that refer to
specifically? Today is an episode where
you have to take out your notebooks,
students, because it is a lot to learn,
but it is very important and absolutely
fascinating. Welcome back to Candace.
All right. So, the Mormon Mafia, who
among you has even heard of that term?
So, I I gave you the context of my
having first heard the term from
Courtney Love of all people and I
genuinely had no idea what she was
talking about, what she was referring
to. We were talking about Hollywood and
she was then telling me everyone talks
about the Zionists but you have to
understand the relationship between the
Zionists and the Mormons uh controlling
everything in Hollywood and music and
publishing rights. I was totally
confused. Um I will be clear however
that in my personal experience I very
much believe there is a Zionist mafia
operating because there always has been
one. I think Michael Jackson alluded to
that before his death. Kanye West
alluded to that after his gym trainer
Harley Pastor Nick threatened to drug
him and take his children away. What
kind of gym trainer writes that kind of
stuff? And I have to tell you guys, and
this is not even a joke, one of the
reasons among many that I was fired from
the Daily Wire, a specific reason that
they listed was I suggested that there
could be a Jewish mafia in Hollywood in
my coverage of Michael Jackson's death.
It was deemed an anti-semitic
suggestion. the mere suggestion that
there could be a Zionist mafia, but
actually it's kind of a simple fact of
history that the Jewish mafia started
Hollywood. I mean, we covered various
aspects of that in our reading of
Hollywood Babylon uh in our book club.
But beyond that, Urggon, the underground
Jewish terrorist organization that were
operating in Palestine, ruthlessly
murdering people to ensure that Israel
became a nation. They just believed
violence was the the means to get what
they wanted. And when I say murdering
people, I don't want you to think that
I'm just referring to Palestinians. I
mean British people, whoever and
whatever was in their way. They were
behind the infamous King David hotel
bombing. They loved to use bombs in
Jerusalem in 1946.
To be clear, the hotel at that time was
operating as the British military
headquarters in Jerusalem. They just
bombed it, killing 91 people in one go
in 1946. And yes, that gang came to
America and manifested here. Zionist
gang became known as the Stern Gang. And
they kept up political lobbying and
bombings which made its way all the way
to the White House. Uh check out this
article about what they did to President
Harry S. Truman. This is a headline in
the New York Times. Um it reads letter
bombs mailed to Truman. And it tells us
that the so-called Stern gang of the
Zionist terrorists tried to assassinate
President Truman by letter bomb in 1947.
According to a new biography written by
Mr. Truman's daughter, Miss Margaret
Truman Daniel writes, quote, "A number
of cream colored envelopes about 8x 6 in
arrived in the White House addressed to
the president and various members of the
staff. They were found to contain a
powdered gelite, a pencil battery, and a
detonator rigged to explode. The
gelanite, pardon me, gelanite when the
envelope was opened. But when the White
House mail room alerts to the danger of
postto bombs discovered the letters and
had them diffused by the Secret Service
bomb experts, Mrs. Daniel writes in her
book, Harry S. Truman. Now, members of
this Zionist gang, which began in
mandatory Palestine, were also
Canaanites.
Literally, it's one of the craziest
things that knowing the history of the
creation of the state of Israel is
enough to warrant someone being labeled
an anti-semite. This is stuff that is
just freely available for you to look up
on even Wikipedia. Okay, take a look at
this in Wikipedia entry referred to as
canon canonism. It reads uh it tells you
that Urggon was a a Jewish Canaanite.
Canananism was a cultural and
ideological movement founded in 1939
reaching its peak among the Jews of
mandatory Palestine during the 1940s. It
had a significant effect on the course
of Israeli art literature literature and
spiritual and political thought. Its
adearance were called Canaanites. Okay.
And then it tells you um that most of
its members were former members of
Urggon or Lehi. Look at the art that
they created. On the right side of this
Wikipedia entry, it says Nimrod.
Okay. A visual emblem of the Canaanite
idea. So they were creating art based on
their beliefs. And who were the
Canaanites in the Bible, guys? Ball
worshippers.
Okay, that's just a fact. It's right in
your face. You wonder what's going on.
Why are they doing what they're doing in
in Gaza and Palestine? Yeah, you got to
go back into the history. Anyways, point
I'm making here is Urggon was a Jewish
Canaanite gang. Uh, no one denies that
it was a terrorist group that killed a
lot of people. One of its members was a
man named Benjamin Emanuel. That is the
father of Ary Emanuel, one of the most
powerful, if not the most powerful man
in Hollywood. Uh his brother is Rahm
Emanuel, one of the most powerful names
in the Democratic party in politics. He
was the director of public affairs under
Bill Clinton before he became his senior
adviser. He uh Ron was also the chief of
staff under Barack Obama and then he
became the mayor of Chicago. There's a
lot of corruption in Chicago as we know.
Their father was literally in a Jewish
terrorist gang. Okay. So, I bring up
that point only to underscore the
absurdity of people trying to suggest
that it's anti-semitism to note the
plausibility of Jewish gangs that are
affiliated with Hollywood and within
politics, especially when so many
entertainers have died in mysterious
circumstances. How many celebrities
can drown in a bathtub before it gets
weird? How many people do you know that
have just drowned in bathtubs in
general? Okay. I believe Kanye West,
always have, always will, and based on
my own literal experience in politics, I
have been threatened. My livelihood has
been threatened, and I have been
gangstalked by Zionists through out the
court system and beyond. But I digress
because you're probably thinking, what
does Mormonism have to do with it? So, I
want to be clear that whenever we're
covering any sort of mafia or gang,
we're not suggesting that every person
of that race or religion or ethnicity is
a member of that mafia because that's
just dumb. Uh, in fact, in most
circumstances, the actual gang members
rely on people who are not in the gang
to be outraged because it gives them
cover, right? Criminals benefit best
when they can mix in amongst regular
hardworking people. There is corruption
everywhere. Obviously, it usually exists
at the top. So the term Mormon mafia,
where does it come from? If you just
Google it, you are going to learn that
it is a colloquial term that is usually
referring to, and I'll quote, um, the
trusted Latter-day Saints inner circle
of business men, businessmen and
accountants who were hired by
billionaire Howard Hughes in Las Vegas
during the 1960s.
Okay, so Howard Hughes is the name that
we need to reference. Who is or rather
who was Howard Hughes? Howard Robert
Hughes Jr. was one of the richest and
most influential people in the world
throughout his lifetime. Okay, he lived
from 1905 to 1976. He was so influential
that Leonardo DiCaprio actually played
him in the movie The Aviator. I have not
seen that. I don't watch a lot of
movies. Heard it was a good movie. But
he was beyond just a businessman. He was
an aerospace engineer, an investor, a
builder, a film producer, you name it.
We do not have time to go over every
area and aspect of his vast wealth and
empire. So, I'm going to really just
minimize it into three main characters
for you on this graphic. Okay. Um, he
had film indust in film industry. He
made his name as a film tycoon. He was a
producer and an investor beginning in
the 1920s behind such films as Scarface
and Hell's Angels, eventually acquiring
ownership of RKO Studios. To make Hell's
Angels, he actually assembled the
largest private air force in the world.
He was also an aerospace engineer. In
1932, Howard Hughes founded the Hughes
Aircraft Company. Uh started off by
renting a hanger within Lockheed
Aircraft.
Then there's Howard Hughes Medical
Institute. Okay, that was his charitable
arm um in he founded that in n formed
that in 1953 to fund basic medical
research. He was also inspired just you
know the backstory to get into medicine
because both of his parents died young
um his mother from an ectopic pregnancy
and I can't remember the reason that his
his dad died young of a heart attack
actually and so he was interested in
just health in general. He inherited at
the age of 19 his family fortune because
both of his parents died and that
impacted him. Obviously, Hugh's aircraft
was eventually transferred into his
charity. So, people thought that he did
that because it was this massive
organization and now it was um you know
protected by being inside of a charity
so he didn't have to pay taxes on it.
Las Vegas. Okay, so this is interesting.
Howard Hughes in the last 10 years of
his life began buying up casinos and
hotels and restaurants in Las Vegas,
including the Desert Inn, where he would
eventually become a a reclusive, the
Sands Hotel.
On that last point is where it gets even
more fascinating because Howard Hughes
himself was not a drinker. He was not a
partyier. He did not do drugs. He was
committed to his businesses. Uh he was
also while he was in business
exceedingly paranoid about communists
and their ability to infiltrate
companies and take them over. Now he was
so paranoid this is a fact that he shut
down his film studio after he acquired
it acquired it RKO for 6 months he shut
it down to investigate the political
leanings of every single employee.
Imagine doing that. That was in 1948.
He's like okay shutting this down. I
need to make sure none of you are
commies. Ironically, 1948 was the same
year that Israel became a country. Um,
but I'm I'm just letting you know that
that was a major concern that he had
always in the back of his mind. And that
is of course what was going on in the
world, the red scares. But of course,
with an empire the size of his, you can
only be so paranoid, right? You have to
trust somebody. You have to trust your
lieutenants, right? You can't be a
one-man band worth billions.
Howard Hughes thought for sure. Okay, if
I'm going to be able to trust people, I
can trust people who live like me. How
about a religious group that's forbidden
from drinking and smoking and gambling?
They live they live like me. Okay, I
don't drink. I don't do drugs. I'm going
to trust the Mormons.
One person who he trusted was a man
named Frank William Gay. He was a member
of the LDS church, Latter Day Saints, uh
who he initially hired just to run a
subsidiary of his tool business. It was
Frank William Gay who would then begin
hiring people around him, hiring what
became known as the Mormon Mafia, who
would surround Howard Hughes during the
rather bizarre last 10 years of his life
when he experienced an entirely entire
shift in his behavior. Like I said, he
became a virtual recluse. He rented out
the penthouse floor of the Desert Inn in
Vegas. Then he outright purchased the
hotel uh casinos all while he was kept
holed up. He would see no one but these
Mormon men who surrounded him. And then
they started telling stories about his
last years and why he didn't want to see
anyone. Again, this was in stark
contrast to the businessman that the
world had come to know and love. The
public was told that the reason that
Howard Hughes uh suddenly didn't want to
see anybody and he became a recluse was
because um he was in pain from injuries
that he had endured over his lifetime.
So he began taking painkillers that he
then developed severe debilitating OCD
which made him avoid all contact with
the outside world because he was a
germaphobe. Um, and that was just some
of the very odd things and disturbing
habits and rituals that they said that
he developed. Here is an article
describing the only men who had access
to him, the Mormons. Um, and this was
published, is this in Time magazine?
Yes. It's entitled uh the keepers of the
king. It tells us, this was published,
by the way, in 1976. Time magazine. It
tells us they had no lavish corporate
suites, no direct authority over other
senior Hughes employees, practically no
business experience. They did however
have two striking advant advantages.
They were with a single exception
adurance to Mormonism, a religion that
embodies Howard Hughes's aversion to
drinking and smoking. And they had
direct unlimited access to the king
himself. They also never talked. One
reporter described them as men without
mouths. They were Hughes's so-called
Mormon mafia. of the six gentlemen in
waiting who were rec recruited by the
Suma Corporation. Uh Bill Gay himself, a
Mormon, attended the Crosis day and
night and in 8-hour shifts. They were
assisted by four physicians on 24-hour
calls and five lesser functionaries,
including Gordon Margillis and Mel
Stewart. It goes through the names here
for their services. The six senior aids
were paid as much as $110,000 a year
each. They equipped his various
hideaways, decided which messages would
reach him. They censored his reading
matters. In short, they controlled
Howard Hughes and the the public image
of him. So, how does this end? Suddenly,
this big guy is not leaving anywhere.
Well, Howard Hughes died, and I have to
tell you, it was a remarkably suspicious
death, not unlike Michael Jackson's, if
you ask me. Officially,
Howard Hughes died of kidney failure on
April 5th, 1976.
He was aboard a jet, actually, a jet
that was owned by a a man named Robert
Graph. G R AF. Now, that surname may
have you wondering, uh, because of
recent news, is that like the newly
appointed judge Tony Graph in the Tyler
Robinson case? Truly, I have no idea if
there's any relation. But what I do know
about Robert Graph who owned this jet is
very interesting. Uh he was the founder
of Robert Graph Inc. which became Duncan
Aviation. His business partner was
Donald Duncan. Yes, that Duncan Aviation
with a mysterious transponding Egyptian
planes on the day of Charlie's
assassination.
That was Robert Graph's company renamed
Duncan Aviation in the 60s. Yeah, that
Duncan Aviation that had that Egyptian
plane take off for Delaware shortly
before the assassination. It is just a
small world. But I digress. Here are the
facts regarding the investigation into
the death of Howard Hughes, which the
investigation had to take place due to a
fight over his estate. Despite being
OCD, he somehow didn't put together a
will for his vast empire.
It tells us that after 18 months
studying and investigating uh Hughes
Hughes's drug abuse, man who didn't do
drugs his whole life and hired Mormons
because they didn't do drugs, suddenly
died a drug addict. It was discovered
after this investigation that quote,
"Someone administered a deadly injection
of the painkiller coding to this
virtually comeosse man, obviously
needlessly and almost certainly fatal
dose.
We then learned that he suffered from
malnutrition, that he was covered in bed
sores, while his kidneys were damaged.
His other internal organs, including his
brain, which had no visible damage or
illnesses, were deemed perfectly
healthy. X-rays revealed five brokenoff
hypodermic needles, needles that were
inside the flesh of his arms. When he
died in 1976, his body was so thin that
observers likened him to a captive from
a Japanese prisoner of war camp. That
was the condition that that man was in.
Beyond that, it was discovered that in
the hotel room that he was being kept
for years, unseen by anyone outside of
the Mormon mafia, the blinds had not
been drawn uh for years. They were
rotting from no use. So we are to
believe at the same time that this man
had debilitating OCD and germaphobe for
germaphobia,
but so much so that he he didn't want to
leave. But also that his personal
hygiene, he was absolutely filthy. Nails
grown out, hail uh the hair grown out,
unshered, bed sores, not even turned
over. But don't worry, they brought in
the psychologist to testify that that's
actually something that we term the
clean healthy paradox.
Okay. Okay. He thinks other and it's
it's a lot to explain. You always got to
bring in a psychologist to explain
nonsense. In effect, during those years,
his business was being run entirely by
his LDS lieutenants, the people that he
trusted, every aspect of it. And after
he died on Robert Graph's plane, the
fight for his $2.5 billion estate began.
People just coming in saying, "Oh, no. I
I should inherit it." There was a
mysterious handwritten note which was
filed by the Church of the Latter-day
Saints, which they claimed was his last
will and testament. That claim was
sumearily rejected by the courts. It was
a 34year legal battle until eventually
it was decided that the majority of his
fortune around $1.5 billion
would be controlled by the Howard Hughes
Medical Institute, the charity that I
told you he started. Um, and that he had
transferred the Hughes Aircraft into uh
now charities have trustees that make
the decisions on the board. Uh, and when
he was alive, he was the trustee to his
own charity. Of course, when he died,
the trustee of the board became Frank
William Gay, his trusted Mormon, who it
would be discovered later was at one
point working with the CIA. Now today
that charity the um Howard Hughes
Medical Institute has an endowment of
$24
billion
billion dollar controlled by trustees
and the companies outside of the charity
of which there was many the casinos the
real estate the movie rights all of that
was placed under a holdings company
Howard Hughes Holding Company it was
Suma Sumo company before that and deals
were made okay we can update you today
to who owns all this stuff today. His
Las Vegas Sands Resort obviously and
casino is controlled and operated by
Miriam Adlesen. Uh it was uh Sheldon
Adlesen that had it and of course he
passed away recently. So Miriam Adlesen
controls that. Steve Wyn controls the
Frontier Hotel and casinos and the
desert in the place where Howard Hughes
became a reclusive never drew the
shades. Steve Win eventually demolished
that and today it is the famed Win Las
Vegas Hotel. The real estate empire is
still being operated beneath with his
name, right? Howard Hughes Holding
Incorporated.
American hedge funder Bill Aman uh was
and is the executive chairman of Howard
Hughes Incorporated. He was from 2010 to
2024.
Uh he is was the executive chairman for
he retired for a couple of months but
then changed his mind last year. In May
of 2025,
Bill Aman made a $900 million investment
into Howard Hughes Holding Incorporated,
uh, returning him back to that executive
chair position.
I should also mention that Frank William
Gay, the uh, trusted Mormon, he had a
son, Robert Gay, who became the managing
director of Mitt Romney's Bane Capital
for 16 years.
So, why am I telling you that? Because
the story is interesting. It's just
interesting to think about that a man
who lives his life and then uh we are
told in the end that he kind of reversed
course on everything that he was. He
becomes a drug addict. His empire gets
smashed, divided and the articles
reflect that he was infiltrated or
heavily imply this Mormon mafia as they
termed it. That's where the term
literally comes from. And it's
interesting and the reason why I came
across this guy's name truly I am not a
movie person was because when I was
researching one of the maroon boys
maroon boys um I who I'm not naming at
this time I did discover that he was a
relative of the Hughes family empire
thought oh who is this who is this
Howard Hughes and then I was speaking to
some LDS church members who were then
telling me the story and I started
reading the articles and going wow this
is super fascinating.
It's also interesting because I have
been consistently telling you guys
before all of this, before I knew
anything that ostensibly Turning Point
USA is an evangelical Christian
organization, but in reality
it's a lot of Mormons. Like half of the
company, it's Mormons. Tyler Boyer, I
have been telling you from the
beginning, was the person that was in
control of everything, the hiring, the
firing. Uh Charlie, he has described
Yeah. He followed Charlie. Charlie did
all the work and but Tyler controlled a
lot of things. There are a ton of LDS
church members who work for Turning
Point USA who were brought in by Tyler.
In fact, on the day that he was
murdered, Charlie himself confirmed
that. So, you don't have to take my word
for it. You can take Charlie's word for
it at UVU. This is what he said. Take a
listen.
Let me just continue. I love Mormons and
missionaries around the world.
>> I love
I have my team is Mormon. Carol's a
Mormon. Andrew's a Mormon.
>> I say everybody, I'm an evangelical
Christian. We're going to have fun with
this. But I'm not one of those guys on
Mormons.
>> Half my team is Mormon. He's telling the
truth. And then he says Andrew. He's not
referring to Andrew Kobat. referring to
the person that picks what stops he goes
on to. Um, and yeah, who runs the field
program that is a Mormon and of Tyler's
a Mormon. He's talking. Terrell's a
Mormon. Terrell's the guy who takes down
the cameras, the Farnsworth guys. And
all of these people knew Erica before
Erica knew Charlie. These families knew
Erica before Erica knew Charlie. Tyler
Boyer handled the money at Turning Point
USA. I have text messages to that effect
proving that he was behind Turning Point
Action. He was the COO first of turning
point USA, then became the COO of
Turning Point Action. And yes, he
brought in Erica. Of that, there is no
doubt. They have both admitted that, but
she can't remember how she knows him.
She told me maybe through Senator John
Kill, maybe uh that's what she told me
in our face tof face meeting, but she
can't recall that specific detail of the
guy who set her up to go on a interview
with the love of her life. Apparently,
I remember the last face tof face
conversation that I had with Tyler. We
were backstage um at Amfest and I was
telling him that Charlie should just
debate Nick Fuentes. there was some
griper stuff going on as usual at these
events in the hallways and um I was like
just sit down and just have the debate.
I think it's just worth having it. And
he told me that Turning Point USA was
never
not going to be pro- Israel. They would
always be pro- Israel in retrospect.
That's a weird thing to say, especially
a weird thing to consider since its
founder was quite literally going
against Israel in those last months that
Charlie Kirk wrote explicitly he had no
choice but to abandon the pro-Israel
cause. And according to Charlie, he felt
that he was being morally blackmailed at
Bill Aman's house in the Hamptons by
Seth Dylan and others. I'll be clear, he
wasn't he didn't say Bill Aman morally
blackmailed him, but Seth Dylan, he did
say, "I've been morally blackmailed by
Seth Dylan, so I know exactly what
Charlie Kirk was referring to." Um, he
was being pressured
and he decided, "No, no more." It's a
phone call from BB Netanyahu. We still
don't know really what happened during
that phone call, but we know his wife
was by his side. We know that Charlie
wanted to 7 days before he died to
establish a Doge audit at his company.
That's a fact. Um, he doesn't know
apparently where all the money is going.
I am told specifically
by Turning Point employees that the
money was missing out of Turning Point
action. That is Tyler's arm. And yes, it
may or may not be relevant that Tyler is
sitting on the board of a company with
Erica's mother, Laura Lorie Fronfay, who
had those relationships with the Mormons
like Terrell Farnsworth
before Charlie knew who Lorie Fronfay
and Erica France were.
We are told that Charlie and Erica had
an appointment to change his will, which
was scheduled for the Monday after he
died. He never made it to that Monday.
They never made it to that appointment.
He's then murdered in Utah.
And then his wife assumes the reigns of
the company. The audit is magically
cancelled. Turning Point becomes
virtually unrecognizable.
Ben Shapiro slides into Charlie's studio
with a million-dollar check in hand. Not
even Ben Shapiro himself or Blake Nef
could stomach the lie that Andrew
Kovette tried to spin that Ben and
Charlie were friends. They actually came
out and told the truth cuz I was going
to go like Max on that and I actually
pulled back on dropping even more text
messages when Blake Nef admitted and Ben
admitted that they were not friends. But
Andrew Kovette attempted to tell that
lie to the public. And that should
terrify you about the people that were
surrounding Charlie Kirk. To be so
willing to so quickly pervert a dead
man's beliefs.
Erica then goes on a Shabbat Shalom book
tour immediately first thing. She sits
down with Barry Weiss, the New York
Times, her and Charlie's home. And of
course, it should be noted that Erica
herself is very close with the Vegas
casino families flying around on their
planes. That's a fact.
As is the fact that one of the only
times that Erica has ever responded to
anything publicly and directly was when
somebody alleged that she was dating
Blake Wyn of the Win Casino dynasty.
I've never, just to be clear, seen any
evidence of that. I have never stated
that. I didn't even cover that. For the
record, it appears that they are very
close friends, but I never ever heard
that they were dating. But she did feel
the need to comment um aggressively to
that.
All of this just feels a little bit
remnant to me, right? A man living his
life one way um relying on his
lieutenants, not knowing what was really
going on around him, and then suddenly
he picks up his head and starts asking
questions.
And now we see the organization that he
left behind, the one that he built doing
a complete 180 on virtually everything
he believed. The very people that he
trusted the most in his inner circle are
doing a 180 on the things that Charlie
believed.
Anyway, um it's all just something to
think about. We'll be right back after
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Andrew Colbeat, man, that I have to tell
you that after I saw him trying to spin
that Charlie and Ben Shapiro were
friends. I was I just said to myself,
"This is an evil man. This is an evil.
There's no way you can do that. I just
have way too many messages, group chats
with Andrew Kovette, with Tyler." I was
like, that takes a a level of dishonesty
and also like a fundamental hatred for
the person who passed away. Like
typically people feel pulled to be more
loyal to people after a tragic death, to
not allow people to come in and to ruin
their legacy. And Andrew just told that
lie and it was so crazy. Ben Shapiro
swept in and said, "I tweeted, okay, I
never claimed to be close to Charlie."
Blake Nef went on to the podcast and
said, "Yeah, no, Charlie had issues with
Ben, but he did consider him at least an
ally in the movement. You know, he was
constantly texting about him, making fun
of him. Andrew was just gonna keep it.
Keep it up and just tell an
extraordinary lie. Reverse the truth.
Candace was an enemy and Ben was a
friend. That tells you Andrew Kovette's
character. And so I am not surprised at
what he is attempting today. It is it is
very stupid what he's attempting. It's
unbelievably stupid because it's it's so
easy to debunk.
Of course, we showed you yesterday um
another PR disaster from start to
finish. Erica's PR has been a disaster.
It just has. Andrew Kov has been driving
that bus. She also told me they brought
in crisis PR teams and these people are
just not reading the public sentiment
from the very beginning. What actually
began this slide was that tour when she
went on to Fox News and then did Barry
Weiss. She did like a bunch of shows in
one week and then they asked her about
the podcaster Candace Owens namechecking
me and she'd stop just stop. And people
were like, "Whoa, you kind of
demonstrated compassion for Tyler
Robinson on stage." And we you've got
these evil eyes for Candace. What's up?
Right. What's up with that? And a Daily
Mail article reflected that stance.
Compassion again for Tyler Robinson.
They were using direct quotes throughout
the entire article. Direct quotes coming
from a family friend who I speculated
was Tracy. uh because that is the only
person I know that is friends with
Erica's family who has been vocally
speaking to people in the press. It was
it was a guess. Anyway, so this
backfired and Andrew Kovette
comes out and says that I'm behind the
article. He tweeted this. We never
received any requests for comment. We
are told that they attempted to send
one, but we can't find it. It is strange
given that every other outlet on the
planet seems to know how to reach us,
including the Daily Mail. That was the
first clue that something very
suspicious was going on here. Anybody
who actually knows Erica knows this is
not how she talks, which calls into
question who this so-called anonymous
source actually is. There isn't a single
word that is an accurate depiction of
Erica's views or comments publicly or
privately. I've personally never even
heard Erica swear at someone. For
starters, Erica has remained remarkably
restrained, though she has ample reason
not to be. The story was so bad, the
Daily Mail had to make a major update to
it once it was confronted with facts,
including retracting their claim that
the source was a family member of the
Kirk family. That's an especially
egregious correction to have to make for
a tabloid. It's unfortunate to see the
Daily Mail doing the bidding of Candace
Owens, who of course used it as rage
bait on her show because she has no
actual evidence to discuss as she
continues this very lucrative
investigation. Maybe she's the anonymous
source. Okay, so when you have spare
time, go on to the Daily Mail website
and type in my name. They hate me. Hate
me. Absolutely. The coverage of me, it's
positively atrocious. I mean, the amount
of times I have called out the Daily
Mail on this show for the hatred that
they have of me and then do do yourself
challenge and type in Erica Kirk and
Turning Point USA and you will see the
exact opposite coverage.
So, of course, we immediately put up the
email that we received asking us for
comment as it always is a few hours
before the piece goes up. Um, and which
we responded immediately and they said
that Erica was coming after us in a
piece and here's what she was going to
say. We gave a comment. The article was
up a couple of hours later and we
covered it on the show. The idea of it I
am colluding with the press anywhere.
Where can Candace Owens get a good fair
article written about her at all?
Everything is she's demonic, she's evil,
she's awful, Erica's a grieving widow,
and he is now accusing me of having some
sophisticated apparatus where I'm
calling myself a BI and a soulless
ghoul. So I challenge him. I Andrew,
this is made up. Truly, the only thing
that's made up is what you're saying.
Obviously, you're now facing backlash,
probably under a little bit of pressure,
um because this was a really dumb
article to plan against me, and you guys
work have proven that you work with
Daily Mail because you chose them and
sent them the video of Erica Kirk being
named by Charlie Kirk. The public's not
allowed to see it, but the Daily Mail
was allowed to see it. We know you work
with them. So, to pretend that you don't
have an established relationship,
anybody is free to see. And to blame me,
that is the definition of somebody
striking you um while crying out in
pain. Like that is Andrew Kovette right
now in a nutshell. Striking me while
crying out in pain because it backfired.
Like every single one of their attacks,
Erica name checked me when she was
dressed like Janet Jackson. That
backfired. That was a bad idea. Multiple
He acts like she's never come after me.
She's come after me. She has come after
me and name checked me multiple times.
And every time she does it, it
backfires. And this time you're now like
actually every time say it's my fault,
right? This NCRI article that you were
promoting, a digital assassin, this is
all you. I don't have a PR apparatus.
Okay. Mitchell receives the request and
he asks me if I want to comment. Nine
out of 10 times I say, "Mitchell, you
can say whatever you want. I don't care
because I don't get any good press. It
doesn't matter for me to try to clean up
or correct or say anything. The press
hates me. I'm at war with the press at
all times because they are an extension
of the state and Erica is deeply
protected by the state. Everybody can
see that. So, it's just incredible.
Obviously, immediately my PR person
dropped the receipts, Mitchell, and
showed the article and was just like,
"You're blaming us because you're
terrible at PR. Here is here is the
email that we received from the Daily
Mail asking us to comment, and we did
comment." Uh and so I am challenging
this is like this is so open and shut.
If the Daily Mail created an article of
which actually secretly Candace was
behind and attributed quotations, they
have not removed the article. They have
not issued any retraction. Turning point
USA could very easily get them get a
lawyer to send out and demand that they
retract it. They're they're using direct
quotations. You can't do that. That is
the clearest case of defamation ever for
an article to make for a a journalist, a
senior reporter no less, to make up
quotations out of whole cloth that never
happened. And here's what I will say. I
am so sick of this. Now they're saying,
"I've never even heard Erica swear. I've
never even heard her swear." Do you
think we're dumb? Do you think people
can't watch her during her pageant years
uh uh when she's trying out for every
real, you know, reality and TV? And
Erica literally says, she's asked the
question, "What is something you wish
that you could say to your younger self?
Advice that you wish you could give to
your younger self?" And she says, "Don't
try cocaine." Well, that's weird advice
to give. Erica used to party. Okay,
that's fine. By the way, the idea that
Erica has never swore and doesn't swear
again is this bizarre caricature that
they have been trying to build of Erica
as like this strong loving qu Christian
who never does anything wrong. Erica
really is a nun behind the scenes. I
have told you explicitly she's nasty
behind the scenes. She is. Any comment,
Andrew Kovven, on what I'm saying about
her calling priests and calling people
and telling them to pull out of a
Catholic prayer event because I was
going to be praying like that had
nothing to do with politics, nothing to
do with you guys. Is that is that the
sweet Christian girl that you're talking
about? No, she operates behind the
scenes. She has been operating behind
the scenes and she works with you. What
kind of Christian lies about a surgeon
call?
What kind of Christian would just say
lie explicitly say Andrew Kov went
rogue, the surgeon went rogue and I had
no idea about it? That's not true. Would
you like to double down on that claim,
Andrew? How about you do that? If I'm
lying and she's so pure and innocent,
then why don't you guys respond to that?
Did the surgeon go rogue and violate
HIPPA and speak to you one-on-one alone
without Erica's approval? Did you tweet
that without Erica's approval?
Honest Erica,
she's never told a lie. She's never
swore. She's never used that language.
She's just so pure. Who are you fooling?
Who do you guys think you are fooling
with this repeat act? I could have
thrown in her time when she was
partying. People that were reaching out
telling me about uh how she partied,
people who partied with her. We left all
that off the table because Erica was in
her 20s and Erica's allowed to party. I
certainly I mean I was not doing drugs
and cocaine, but I certainly partied. I
always tell people that I was partying
in New York City. catch me at PhD the
electric room one oak. So we left off
the table. But the idea that you're now
trying to paint her as so innocent that
she doesn't swear so that you can blame
me for what you guys not just did to me
have been doing to me nonstop promoting
influencers that attack me nonstop. Go
after my family.
It's unbelievable. Andrew, your your PR
strategy is a nightmare. So I am
challenging you. I am asserting
definitively
that I had nothing to do with that Daily
Mail article. I have nothing to do with
any press that's being written about
Erica because the press hates me. Um,
I'll I'll go to court with you. You You
get them for defamation. If Candace was
behind these twe these direct quotations
taken from a family friend, an article
that has not been retracted,
I I'm your ally, Andrew. That's really
dirty business for a senior reporter to
do. That person should be fired. Like,
you should you should actually pursue
that. that would be a good use of your
time rather than tweeting stupidity into
the universe as seems to be the
full-time job of both you and Blake.
Okay.
Anyway, a couple of things that I did
want to respond to from yesterday's
episode. got a lot of emails and
tomorrow is when we're going to cover
obviously who Ben Shapiro was allegedly
lunching with when he found out and got
the news and his security sprung into
action and spoke to we still don't know
who on the phone in the car. A couple of
people thought that the car looked like
it was burned, that the panel was black
and brown. That's actually, just so you
guys know, you can get that's just an
option on a car. That one looks
particularly dry, but like you can get
that option on a car. I've seen that
many times. So, we're actually showing
you that that is a a full option on a
car. That's not um uh any type of
conspiracy there, that there is black
and that there is brown. Um and then I
also wanted to
comment on people who noted that Mikey
had two phones. We've been getting a lot
of emails about this, Mikey having two
phones in the news clip that we showed
you yesterday walking into the hospital.
Also, we it's a fact Mikey did have two
phones when him and Charlie walked into
the event. The reason why I have not
commented on that and and also Blake Nef
oddly saying I put that phone away that
implies there's another phone. Everyone
would just say I put my phone away and
Blake Nef does say I put that phone
away. And I can show you that clip. Take
a listen. I remember he calls Erica
around the same time I pull out my phone
and I call my mom just to say, "Mom,
there's been a shooting. You're going to
see it on the news. I'm okay. You know,
pray for me. I've got to And I remember
that call and around the time I I put
that phone away and then he immediately
calls his dad. He calls Robin McCoy.
>> Okay. I put that phone away. That's that
is strange. That is you would say I put
my phone away. You would not say I put
that phone away unless there was another
phone. But we don't have um anything
concrete. And what I mean is what I can
say definitively is that when me and
Charlie did events a lot of times we
would hand our phones to our assistants.
So, I don't know if Charlie had his
phone. I've not yet seen or I guess I
should say I haven't myself looked to
see if Charlie had his phone on the
table in front of him because Mikey
could just be holding Charlie's phone
and Mikey could have taken Charlie's
phone to the hospital. Um, I will look
for that, but that's the reason why I
haven't replied. And obviously Blake Nef
saying that phone isn't enough evidence
to suggest that all of them had two
phones. Mikey may have had two phones.
That's that is a plausibility. But it is
also a plausibility that Charlie gave
his phone um to Mikey just ahead of the
event cuz I did that a lot with Charlie.
We would hand our phones to our
assistants and then we would go on
stage. So um I'll leave it at that. And
I do also want to show you one more um
email that we got from a seamstress
regarding what was in the car. She wrote
Candace and Baron. She CCed Baron on
this email. I am a seam a seamstress for
20 plus years. That item clearly has a
seam, referring to the burned item on
the floor, and you can see the precise
spacing of each thread in the seam. I
have included photos of the areas that I
am referencing. I believe the larger
portion of the cloth that we see that we
can see is the outside of the shirt,
evidenced by the visible seam line. On
the top, it appears the shirt is folded.
So, the char would be on the inside of
the shirt. I also included a photo of
what makes sense to me of how that seam
could fit onto the shirt. It would be on
the lower portion of the sleeve. Then we
would be missing the area where the seam
joins into the armpits. Continued to
another seam down the side of the shirt
that is less clear to see the thread
indentation. So maybe you have a higher
resolution photo than my screenshot from
today's phone from today's show. Please
let me know if you need more clarity.
And here is the photo that she which was
I thought was very helpful of how she
was describing that. She sort of
flattened it and uh is basically saying
that it represents the front and the
back of his shirt.
It's interesting. Certainly is
interesting um what she is describing
and she gave us this the inside of the
shirt, the outside of the shirt and the
fold. Of course, I don't have seamstress
eyes. I just told you guys that we got
so many emails from people saying it's a
shirt to shirt shirt and they are within
the industry. So, I'm inclined to
believe when we get that many emails uh
asserting something that it could be
true. It could also not be true, but you
know, the more you know. This has been
an open investigation into things. uh
because we can't get answers from the
people who would know. Anyway, we'll
take a brief break and I'll come back
and read your comments. All right, you
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Okay. Top comment from yesterday's
episode. Uh Teni Rayu writes, "Who hates
it most when crimes are investigated?
Those involved in the crimes." I I agree
with that statement. Julia Turner
writes, "I'll never forget." That's a
quotation from Blake Nef who now has
amnesia. It is. Yeah. Interesting to
hear him say. I'll never forget Mikey's
quivering lip.
I have to call Erica. Um but he was
already on the phone. So that's
interesting thing that Blake did forget.
But Blake comes in and out. You know,
we're here to help Blake. Um uh comments
from today's episode getting into this.
Happy Party Place writes, "A standing
ovation for all that you do. Because of
you, I was led back to Christ and am
instilling his love in my children. For
each working occurren against you, may
God send you an army, a believer to
support and protect you. You are keeping
his legacy alive. Go Max, mama. Well, I
can tell you that because the press
hates me so much and the government
government hates me so much and uh
really the only place that I get support
is from you guys. Truly, that's the only
place that I can get support and that is
the thing that keeps me going. So, um a
standing ovation to you guys as well.
Joseph writes, "I would love a Candace
Times Dr. Taylor Marshall conversation.
He was attacked for opinion on the SSPX.
That family is treated more harshly than
non-atholics. I see a parallel of
Candace proximity to the conservatism.
More harsh treat harsh treatment would
be expected for not accepting the
conservatism dour." I actually didn't
see what his opinion was on the SS SSPX.
Um, so I'll have to look into that. A
long many moons ago, I was going to do
something with Dr. Taylor Marshall. Um,
and then he sort of had to cancel and it
was like during Trump election season he
was kind of doing stuff with Trump and
um, yeah, that's but then we never
really rescheduled that or tried to make
it happen again. He's uh, good friends
with my husband George and we have
hosted him here in Nashville before.
Neus writes, Candace, thank you for
being my voice that America needs
voices. America does need voices. I
agree with that and I think they're it's
a it's building like it feel good, feel
happy, guys. It's um it's breaking now
into the mainstream. People are
beginning to discuss this all the
aspects of the case. I actually think
because of that the the preliminary
hearing was a good thing. It was a good
thing. That's what I mean when I say
everything always backfires. What an
atrocious idea if you're the PR team to
have Erica invite influencers into the
courtroom. What does that look like just
on its face? Does somebody actually have
to sit you down and say, "No, actually
that's a bad idea because we're saying
that the truth is on our side. The truth
doesn't require influencers. It just
does not require influencers to tell the
truth. If the evidence is overwhelming,
we're all going to be overwhelmed by it.
You don't need influencers telling us
it's overwhelming. And so that
immediately registers to the public as
fraudulent.
Unforced error after unforced error.
That's not something that would be on
anybody's mind. If you're going to face
the person who you allege you are fully
confident murdered your husband, the
last thing you would think is, well, let
me call up Graham Allen and and Benny
Johnson and see if they're free to come.
What? How do you think people in the
public are going to take that?
They're going to think that you need
influencers because you're not telling
the truth, because you aren't confident.
Because you don't think the facts are
enough? That's common sense. That's not
Candace making that happen. It's common
sense. Like, please have a little bit
more faith in the public than to think
that they're going to be swayed by
obvious influencer campaigns. They're so
obvious. Like I said yesterday when we
were tracking all of a sudden they're
all bringing up Sandy Hook. They're all
talking about Sandy Hook. That's an
obvious influencer campaign which makes
us believe that your next plan is going
to be a lawsuit to try to bankrupt
anybody who is meaningfully looking into
this case. And the example of course
will be me because that's what they're
all mentioning me. Like they're going to
publicly hang me for how everyone in the
world feels about this case because
clearly the facts aren't convincing
enough. Again, that will be another
unforced error, but we've just come to
expect them from a Turning Point USA
team who has reverse course in
everything that Charlie Kirk believed.
Zamit writes, you know, Zamit, by the
way, you are always here. Thank you so
much. like you we do have like repeat
people who give every day and I'm just
really grateful for that. Um this person
writes, "Grateful to Charlie to have met
you." I'm grateful that I met Charlie.
We had such a great time. Like I told
you, I I am able to like laugh again and
appreciate and I'm just in a different
space with it now. like it it took me
going to Spain and shutting off and I
don't know something just transformed
and I'm going okay like I can look at
the messages and feel happiness as
opposed to like the deep deep deep
sadness and searching like I'm I'm
remembering so many little things and
just Charlie's character and the stuff
that he like the real Charlie you know
not the Turning Point USA machine um who
was infiltrated and kind of turned into
a workhorse first. He was He was great,
man. I I wish I wish all of you guys did
know the real Charlie. Kai writes, "Stay
strong. We love you and we have your
back." Thank you, Kai. Brooke writes,
"You carry truth like it cost you
nothing when we all know it costs you
everything. That's what real courage
looks like. You've given so many of us
the nerve to think clearly again in a
world built to punish that. Go Max,
baby. Christ is king." Thank you,
Brooke. That is really, really sweet.
And it has cost a lot over this last
couple of years. It definitely has
literally caused a lot over the last
couple of years, but we've gained a lot
and we've gained more. I mean, we've
gained friendships. And I was thinking
the other day, like
that sadness that I felt thinking that
Charlie's last days were spent sort of
waking up and realizing that everything
in his life was a fiction, a play, a
movie. Um, now I feel a swell of an
emotion realizing that Charlie, he never
got to meet these friends, but Charlie
had a lot of friends, man. He's still a
trending topic and people are dedicating
their lives uh to this and what would
Charlie say? He he he can see it. I I
have to think that Charlie can see it
and he's seeing the Baron Coleman's and
last night I was jumping in the chat of
Lionel Nation and seeing how much people
care about him. Like he did have friends
and he has friends and I don't know. I
just I just wanted to say that like that
makes me feel better just to see like
you know if Charlie was not a real
person that was what he earned. That's
what he was building towards. That's the
account that he was building was that
when he died, so many people were
spiritually impacted by it that they've
been staying on this journey to learn
the truth about what happened. His death
meant something. It means something. And
that is only because he was such a good
person and and he he lived honorably. So
please do not accept the filth that
Andrew Kovat is selling that Charlie was
some liar and secretly he hated
everybody and was deceitful and working
behind the scenes. That's not who he
was. Natty Nicole writes, "Kenneth, I
saw a 15-inute compilation video of you
and Charlie laughing together on
YouTube, and it painted such a beautiful
picture for those who weren't around
back then. How dare they attempt to
erase that. I pray for you always." I
have not seen that. Where is that? Where
is Where is this? You got to try to find
that, Skye. I have no idea where that
is. Or Ashley, if you could look that
up. I did not. That That will I'm ready
to see it. I was not um in a place
emotionally where I could watch the
clips of me and Charlie. And I told you
guys that instantly like we laughed like
no other. Like the just we had names for
everybody, names for ourselves. He made
fun of himself. He was so
self-deprecating. Like I could send him
people making fun of him and be like,
"Haha, this is so accurate. This is
you." And he could send me things of
people making fun of me. Um it's that
which is the best quality when you can
laugh at yourself and not take yourself
too seriously. And um yeah, I think I
could be prepared to watch that. It was
there were we went everywhere together.
We really did. And it Yeah. I don't
know. There's nothing really else to say
about that, but I I look forward to
watching that.
Uh oh, you found it. Let's Let's uh pull
that up. I want to see what it's called
>> never be an option. And also surround
yourself with people like Candace that
whatever you're doing that can relate
>> to the first when you say something that
um they're going to tell you, you know,
the truth and they're gonna be honest.
Um but they'll also have your back. And
I understand this might sound um cliche,
but it's so hard to find that, right?
>> It's so hard to find that kind of
loyalty that um you know the kind of the
old expression is, you know, when you're
in a foxhole, you want you want someone
who is not going to tell you that
there's no bullets being fired. You want
just to say where the bullets are coming
from,
>> right? Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly right.
>> You don't want someone in the foxhole
with you being like, "Well, you want to
get a hot dog? Like maybe a burger, a
smoothie." You want to say, "No, no,
there's a machine gun nest over there.
There's mortar shells coming from there.
here's what we're gonna do to be able
>> plan of action to get out of this.
>> Exactly. And and and um that's the type
of friend that you want and you
definitely don't want one that's gonna
run for the hills behind you and you're
don't understand like the divinity of
that type
of meaning to it.
>> So I want to jump into some of these
questions.
>> We could go on forever. This could be a
5 hour podcast.
>> We're gonna Yeah, we're going to end up
>> I'll watch that when we get off there. I
actually am going to watch the full 15
minutes of that. That's fantastic.
Whoever did that, um, Desiree, it looks
like, thank you so much for putting that
together. I really, um, that's really
meaningful. I didn't have the heart to
do it myself, but uh, anyway, you guys,
we are we have merch available on our
website, as I always tell you, it's the
easiest way to support us in the
independent work that we do is to just
buy a hat, buy a stand cup, stop anti
anti-andiceism, send it to somebody who
needs to hear that, who has been an
anti-candaceist. We can't accept
anti-andiceism. It's just it's it's
eating away at our society. It's a hate
that mutates as we've seen. It's crazy.
I love, by the way, this new account
that's just calling out Laura Loomer is
fantastic. Uh, grab a t-shirt. That's
such a great color for a Sanders cup, by
the way. That's the best one. I think
that's that's my favorite color of the
Sandis edition. Um, and by the way, for
people that own them all, have been with
us on this journey from the beginning
since we started like the Camala
Chronicles, thank you guys so much. Um,
you know, this podcast means a lot to
me. It's like my personal therapy. It's
all allows me to vent about all of the
attacks that come after me that are, you
know, these people that come after me.
And it seems unfair, but I I also know
that God doesn't give you anything more
than you can handle. You know, God gives
you exactly what you can handle. And we
are handling this, and yeah, it's okay.
It is going to be okay. All right, you
guys. We are a little overboard.
Tomorrow, as promised, we are going to
get into who Ben Shapiro was lunching
with. Very interesting story. We'll see
you guys then.
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