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Charlie Kirk is the Founder and President of Turning Point USA, the largest and fastest growing conservative youth activist organization in the country with over 250,000 student members, over 150 full-time staff, and a presence on over 2,000 high school and college campuses nationwide. Charlie is also the Chairman of Students for Trump, which aims to activate one million new college voters on campuses in battleground states in the lead up to the 2020 presidential election. His social media reaches over 100 million people per month and according to Axios, he is one of the "top 10 most engaged" Twitter handles in the world. He is also the host of “The Charlie Kirk Show,” which regularly ranks among the top news shows on Apple podcast charts.
Subscribe on YouTubeCharlie Kirk Debates Kamala Harris Supporters on Trump, Democracy, and the Border Crisis
Charlie Kirk engages in a spirited debate with two Kamala Harris supporters who argue Trump is anti-American. The conversation covers January 6th, constitutional concerns, censorship under the Biden administration, and the border crisis. Kirk challenges them on Harris's accomplishments as vice president while defending Trump's record on the economy, border security, and foreign policy. The exchange highlights fundamental disagreements about what threatens American democracy, government censorship or Trump's rhetoric, and examines how immigration policy impacts Black Americans and the broader working class.
The Challenge: Is Trump Anti-American?
Two Kamala Harris supporters, Bernard and Zaha, approach Charlie Kirk with a direct challenge. They believe Donald Trump is fundamentally anti-American and anti-patriotic, undermining core American values. They present three main examples: Trump's Twitter rhetoric about suspending the Constitution, the events of January 6th, and his general treatment of Americans who disagree with him.
Kirk welcomes the respectful manner of their question and responds by reframing what democracy truly means to him—the ability to express opinions freely without government interference, regardless of political affiliation.
Censorship: The Real Threat to Democracy
Kirk pivots the conversation to what he sees as the Biden-Harris administration's most serious threat to democracy: censorship. He outlines several key concerns from the past four years:
- The censorship of Donald Trump at the instruction of government agencies
- People held without due process for expressing themselves openly
- Social media companies suppressing the Hunter Biden laptop story on the eve of the last election
- Direct message blocking on Twitter and Facebook for those trying to share certain stories
Kirk argues that voters don't have to agree with 100% of what any candidate says, but the basic rules of democracy require the ability to express opinions without government censorship. He contends that when comparing the Trump and Biden-Harris administrations on censorship, the difference isn't even close.
Debating Trump's Constitutional Threats
When pressed on whether Trump actually suspended the Constitution during his presidency, the supporters acknowledge he did not. Kirk challenges them on why they believe he would do so in a second term if he never did it during his first. The conversation shifts to January 6th, which the supporters describe as an attempt to use fake electors and delay vote certification.
Kirk responds by noting that Trump told supporters to "peacefully and patriotically march to the Capitol," emphasizing the importance of free speech. The discussion becomes tense when addressing Ashley Babbitt, the only person to die on January 6th, who Kirk describes as an unarmed Trump supporter killed by one of Nancy Pelosi's bodyguards.
Kamala Harris's Record as Vice President
Kirk turns the tables and asks what Kamala Harris's greatest accomplishment has been. The supporters cite her as the most active vice president in history, having cast the most tie-breaking votes in the Senate. They also reference her time as a district attorney and California attorney general.
Kirk reframes the question to focus on what Harris has actually done to improve Americans' lives. He points to three areas where she had specific responsibility:
- The border crisis, with 10 million illegal immigrants entering under her watch
- The Russian-Ukrainian War, following her speech at the Munich security conference
- The withdrawal from Afghanistan
Kirk argues that everything Harris has touched as vice president has been a miserable failure, questioning why this record would qualify her to be president.
The Border Crisis and Missing Children
The conversation delves deeply into immigration policy. Kirk highlights that approximately 320,000 children are missing from the southern border, many of whom are being sex trafficked. He explains that Kamala Harris eliminated DNA testing at the border—a 90-second process that could determine if a child is related to the person bringing them across.
When the supporters mention the bipartisan border bill, Kirk responds that it would have been permissible for 5,000 people to cross daily before triggering a shutdown. He argues the border should be shut down after one illegal crossing, not 4,999.
Kirk emphasizes that most immigration isn't random border crossings but cartel-smuggled fraudulent asylum claims. He describes visiting the border and learning about cases from 135 different countries, with migrants paying cartels around $10,000 to fraudulently claim asylum. He estimates 90% of border crossers are essentially pseudo-slaves to the cartels.
The Remain in Mexico Policy
A key point of debate centers on Trump's signature "Remain in Mexico" policy. Kirk explains that while a federal judge ruled it remains the law of the land, the current administration simply isn't enforcing it. This leads to his broader argument: if existing laws aren't being enforced, there's no point in passing new ones. The first step should be enforcing current laws, completing border wall construction, and stopping federal funding for sanctuary cities.
Comparing Presidential Records on Key Issues
Kirk presents what he calls "hard facts" comparing the Trump and Biden-Harris administrations:
Economy: Under Trump, prices stayed flat while wages went up. Under Biden-Harris, prices have increased while wages remained flat.
Border Security: Under Trump in 2019, the country hit an all-time low for illegal entries. Under Biden-Harris, the last four years saw the largest number of illegal entries over a three-year span in American history.
Foreign Policy: Under Trump, there were no major conflicts in Russia-Ukraine or the Middle East. Under Biden-Harris, America is closer to World War III than at any point in recent memory.
Kirk encourages the supporters to evaluate which candidate will actually make their lives better over the next four years based on these measurable outcomes.
Immigration System Rewards Lying
Kirk makes a provocative argument about the current immigration system: it literally selects for people most willing to lie to the US government. He explains that asylum laws require documented proof of bodily harm threats based on race, religion, or similar factors. Those who honestly say they don't have such proof don't get in, but those willing to lie and check the box on the CBP One app do get in.
This means the system's first test rewards lawbreaking, and Kirk argues it's no surprise that people whose first act entering the country breaks the law often continue breaking laws once here. He insists this isn't racist or xenophobic but a fact-based observation about who the system selects.
The City of Dreams and Child Trafficking
Kirk references a movie he helped make called "City of Dreams," which tells the true story of a young man smuggled across the border and forced into labor in Los Angeles sweatshops. He argues this is the kind of issue the left used to care about—children separated from parents and put into forced labor—but is now a direct consequence of cartel-influenced policies under the current administration.
Impact on Black Americans
Kirk concludes with a pointed message about how immigration policy affects Black Americans specifically. He argues that Black Americans should be concerned about being replaced by foreigners, noting that while Democrats have long claimed an obligation to Black Americans, the current administration prioritizes third-world migrants over the Black community.
He cites examples from Chicago and New York where this displacement is visible, with foreign workers undercutting wages and filling cities. Kirk plants a seed with the supporters that Black America is being put last, which he suggests has been a common theme over the last 60 years when Democrats are in control.
Video Transcript
are we introducing ourselves yeah just
come close to the mic so everybody can
and talk loud all right you got it you
got well my name is Bernard you know
what I'm saying my name is zaha 100%
okay so we are uh uh Kamala Harris
supporters um uh or Kamala Harris rather
as of now as maybe we'll see um you guys
are Trump supporters as of now yeah yeah
exactly exactly um basically for we're
going to talk about main like we wanted
to ask yall about two main points right
which is essentially we believe that
Trump is anti-American anti patriotic
fun our primary opposition to Trump is
that he is anti-American and
anti-patriotic he fundamentally
undermines American values yes okay so
then so tell us why wh why give us three
examples how Donald Trump has undermined
American values absolutely so the first
I'll say the lightest example is going
to be rhetoric on Twitter he said openly
on Twitter that we should suspend the
Constitution I feel so I feel is though
that's fairly anti-American um he's uh
the next much larger point is going to
be January 6th I think the whole January
6 thing overall is a major major problem
for Trump as an American in general and
the last sort of thing is his General
sort of demeanor he treats Americans who
disagree with him um as people to not
really support as people not to really
help out or anything like that if you're
against Trump it's it's the highway of
the other I don't remember the phrase
but you know the what I'm talking about
yeah you're trying to say my way the
highway all right and fair enough I
appreciate the respectful manner in
which you asked that question so here's
the thing if you care about defensive
democracy here's what democracy is about
to me okay is do you get to do what we
just did where you get to express
yourself and your opinion freely okay as
long as I do or Charlie do or what's
your name zah or zaha does in return
that's American democracy that's the
whole ball game if we lose that we don't
have a country okay so here's what's
happened under four years of Joe Biden
okay we have seen the censorship of
Donald Trump at the instruction of
government agencies we've seen a lot of
people in this country who have been
held without going through due process
for expressing themselves in the open
we've seen social media companies on the
eve of the last election there was the
hunter Biden laptop story a lot of
people said that if they had seen that
story they would have voted differently
if you wanted to send that on a direct
message on Twitter or on Facebook they
suppressed you from doing it that's not
democracy that's the stuff of banana
republics that's the stuff of third
world Nations and so my view is you
don't have to agree with 100% of what
Donald Trump says to vote for him and
you don't have to agree with 100% of
what k Harris says to vote for her too
I'll apply the same standard but what we
want in this country is the basic rules
of the road where if you have an opinion
you get to express it without the
government censoring you along the way
so when you think about what's
anti-American there's nothing more
anti-American than censorship and if you
look at which person was more
responsible for censorship was it Biden
Harris or was it the Donald Trump
Administration it's not even close and
that's why I'd encourage you to change
your mind okay I I do I do want to ask
though
um you say you're supporting kamla
Harris C can you either of you tell me
what you think her greatest
accomplishment is yes so I mean there's
a few oh yeah do you want to go first
you want me wait before we answer that
question I guess I feel like our
question wasn't sufficiently responded
to or answered it feels as though you
guys pivoted what is the question the
question is why do you think that okay
so you said he susp wanted to suspend
the Constitution did he do that when he
was president no he did not but okay so
then why would he do it again when he
was president so what evidence do you
have that Donald Trump would ever
suspend the Constitution do you think
that it is like legitimate to be
concerned about as an American citizen
for our for a potential presidential
candidate a former US president to
threaten to suspend the US contion he
never has you're misquoting him but
let's just look at what he did not just
rhetoric can you give me one instance of
where he suspended the Constitution when
he was president I mean he wanted to
suspend I don't know if he want to count
as the Constitution but again January
6th all right let's talk about January
6th what happened on January 6th well
yeah it's a long sort of Bill up where
Donald Trump was working with most of
his former staff including Mike Pence
and all the others to try to get a sort
of slate of fake electors to then go up
to the capital get a large group of
trump supporters to be really really
riled up hopefully they delay the
certification of the vote enough so that
Mike Pence can break the ECA and
therefore Donald Trump wins by getting
these fake electors through that sort of
meeting yeah or what happened there was
a big rally and he said to peacefully
and patriotically March to the capital
which you believe in right to be able to
have freedom of speech I mean yeah the
only person to die on January 6th was a
trump supporter killed by one of Nancy
Pelosi's bodyguards so I just want to be
clear cuz she was breaking into the
capital so you should you should Ashley
babot should should be killed wow okay
that's a new one well um she was I just
want to be clear we're not we're not do
you not believe in stand your ground do
you not believe that someone was
intruding on property of which they
should not have been intruding hold on
but Ashley babot was unarmed isn't the
whole kind of stick of the American left
like don't shoot unarmed people if I
break into your house and I was unarmed
but I broke I was breaking into your
house was George Floyd was that a right
ful death no but he was probably wasn't
breaking into the cop's house that's
probably not he was under a he was
submitted he was submitted by well so so
was Ashley Abbott actually Ash no I
don't Ashley babbett was retreating at
the time that she was shot in the head
anyway that that's you think about
Trump's the fake elector scheme and what
do you think about Trum alternate
electors which again alternate electors
is a tradition that goes all the way
back to the 1960 election with JFK
versus Nixon of which was not considered
a threat to threat to democracy but I'm
interested though you guys are are super
you know focused on technical things
that we could talk about forever let me
just ask a question I asked you what is
KLA Harris's greatest accomplishment can
you tell me what that would be okay yeah
so let just to go through it just so it
doesn't seems like we're dodging uh
there's a couple different things she's
by far the most active vice president in
US history I'm pretty sure she's broke
had the most yeah yeah be mad be mad mad
wait what do you mean active like she's
had the most tiebreaking votes in the
senate in US history I'm pretty sure
this is true either that or like super
close yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah we'll be
okay guys we'll be okay let me just
rephrase what just in your opinion cuz I
want to get this on the table what is
the single thing that she has done to
improve the lives of Americans I mean we
could talk about her time as the da we
could talk about her time um as as
californ attorney general I guess my
question to you is what are the
constitutionally prescribed roles of a
vice president that she failed to okay
I'm glad you asked so she was in charge
of two things she was in charge of the
Russian Ukrainian War before it happened
and she was in charge of the Border she
was and the withdrawal from Afghanistan
and the withdraw from Afghanistan those
three things the Border we have 10
million illegal people that come to this
country under her watch she gave a
speech at the Munich security conference
where Vladimir Putin invaded Ukraine and
all but invited Vladimir Putin's
Invasion and then she was in charge of
withdrawal of Afghanistan are those
three successful things that we can look
to as KLA Harris being VP well you know
it's really funny because speaking on
that 10 million immigrant point I would
be more mad at Cala Harris if they
didn't try to pass a border Bill if they
didn't try to pass aad we don't need new
border laws as exhibited by Donald Trump
because under Donald Trump we didn't
have any new border laws and border
crossings were not all time low instead
Joe Biden and con Harris When Donald
Trump was president from 2017 to 2021 I
think there was a specific period of
time and it was an all time low yeah it
was it was an alltime low on an average
over the four years of trump being
president but the first thing Joe Biden
and K Harris did is they rescinded 65
executive actions that Donald Trump put
into place for example DNA testing if I
were to ask you how many kids right now
are missing from the southern border how
many would you say I'm pretty sure yall
say something like 350,000 yeah so
320,000 kids are missing many of whom
are being sex traffic do you know why
that is cuz KLA Harris got rid of DNA
testing on the southern border where you
no longer have to be swab DNA test takes
90 seconds to find out if a kid is
related to the person that is bringing
them across the border so kamla Harris
has been responsible for the border
which is one of the greatest failings in
modern American history and so yes as a
vice president you are tasked for
certain projects and certain things
everything she has touched has been a
miserable failure if that is the case
why would you be a good president okay
so a couple different things on that
whole immigration point one again it's
it's weird to frame the Border thing as
like only an additional thing for new
laws like we we know for a fact there
was going to be additional border agents
we know for a fact there's going to be
additional funding judges additional
judges so so remain in Mexico was
Trump's signature policy it was okay so
it means you remain in Mexico your case
is adjudicated right now do you know if
remain in Mexico is still the law of the
land it's not it is not actually so so
that's just just you have no reason I'm
not going to hold you responsible with
this okay actually turns out Romain in
Mexico is a law land a federal judge
held accordingly they're just not
enforcing it so Donald Trump and the
Republican position I share this is if
you're not going to enforce the laws as
they exist there's no point in actually
passing new laws the first step we need
to do is enforce the laws as they exist
right now and back to the broader point
about Kam Harris versus Donald Trump he
G to give you some hard facts okay under
Donald Trump prices stayed flat wages
went up under KL Harris and Joe Biden
prices have gone up wages have remained
flat under Donald Trump in 2019 we hit
the all-time low for illegal entries
into this country under Comm Harrison
Joe Biden the last four years we've had
the largest number of illegal entrance
into this country over a three-year time
span in American history under Donald
Trump we were not in major conflicts in
Russia Ukraine or the Middle East under
KL Harris and Joe Biden we are closer to
World War III than we've ever been in
our lifetime so if we just measure
closeness to World War III border crisis
economy what makes your life better and
the lives of the people here better I
believe it's not even close when you
think about you could have the debates
about democracy all you want I think
censorship is the greatest threat to
democracy we've seen greater form of
censorship in the last three years than
we've seen any other time in my lifetime
but on the issues of what's going to
make the lives of the people here better
I think it's not even close and that's
why I'd encourage you to ask yourself
who's going to make your life better in
the next four years I think Donald
Trump's answered that question do you
think that one thing that would have
helped the um the massive rates of
border crossings would have been the
Border Bill the bipartisan border
legislation the answer no the answer is
no to that because first of all most of
those border crossings occurred before
that border bill was even proposed what
would have helped was actually enforcing
the laws as they exist reimplement
remain in Mexico complete the actual
construction of the border wall and then
stop funding Federal Sanctuary cities
where our own taxpayer money is creating
the incentives for those illegal
migrants to cross that didn't happen to
Trump it's happening under Biden I don't
mean to interrupt but super quick the
Border bill would have said it was
permissible to have 5,000 people
crossing the border a day it's correct
it's in it's in the language of the bill
it was saying 5,000 people at the point
at which 5, 5,000 people crossed they
would have shut down the right so if
it's 4,999 you don't shut down the
Border that's pretty insane right Al
wait but also very very quickly how
about this you should shut down the
border with one person crossing the
southern border also what do you wait
just to be very very clear when we say
all right all right buddy all right budy
when we say crossing right we understand
that most of the immigration that's
coming in right now is not just randomly
borders Crossing people it's usually
Asylum Seekers right well no it's
actually cartel smuggled Cel cartel
sponsored fraudulent Asylum claims I
encourage you to go down to the border
and see it yourself the cartel will take
someone from any you know what what
Pakistan India 135 countries they'll
quote unquote claim Asylum after they
pay the cartel 10,000 bucks 90% of all
people that cross the border are pseudo
Slaves by the the cartels basically so
you think 9 million of the undocumented
like the immigrants that have come in
are all illegal they're all illegal
because they're we know it's actually we
know it to be true it's not the question
they're they're fraud they're they're
defrauding the American Immigration
system is what they're doing wait so
you're saying that there's sufficient
proof please talk in the mic you're
saying that there are sufficient proof
that claims that the 9 million people
who crossed the border like weren't like
I guess official Asylum Seekers yes I
mean so for example what is the Asylum
claim if if you're coming from from
German North Korea actually so so
there's an interesting case so I went
down to the southern I tell you two
personal facts all right I went down to
the southern border the day before I got
there there was two men who came from
Lebanon crossed the southern border
smuggled across they in that case caught
the two of them there was also a woman
from North Korea in a bag that cross the
southern border what's interesting about
that is North Korea is a country from
whom you can actually seek Refugee
status in the United States yet she
chose not to do it in Cross illegally is
that an illegal border crossing when you
lie to a border patrol agent when you do
it the answer is yes and I think
actually that number is way higher than
9 million over the course of the last
four years and and the other thing I
I'll just sort of personally lay out for
you I'm not I don't have any financial
interest in this but I'm laying out
because I did it this year because it is
Meaningful there's a movie I actually
helped make this year called City of
Dreams tells the story of a young man
who was smug across the border true
story in LA in sweat shops this is the
kind of thing that the left used to be
concerned about a child who separated
from his parents put into forc labor in
the United States that is a direct
consequence of the cartel influence
policies and yes I think there are
probably upwards of at least somewhere
between 10 and 30 million people in the
United States of America right now
illegally and your First Act of entering
this country if it breaks the law that's
unconstitutional that's unlawful and the
number one thing that our immigration
system rewards right now isn't how smart
you are isn't how hard you're going to
work it's whether you're willing to lie
to the US government if you say under
Asylum laws what it says is if I'm under
a threat of bodily harm right now for my
race or my religion or factors like that
you have to have documented proof so if
you say I don't have that proof and I'm
not really under threat for bodily harm
I don't want to lie you don't get in but
if you're willing to lie you check that
box on the cbp1 app or otherwise you get
in so right now our immigration system
literally selects for the people who are
most willing to lie to the US government
to get in
and that's why it's no surprise that the
people whose First Act of entering the
country breaks the law often continue to
break the law while they're already here
I don't think that's racist or
xenophobic I think it's a fact based on
who we actually selecting to come into
the country do you think that um
allowing for thousands of more border
patrol agents and more judges to
properly assess and legitimize the
validity of these um Asylum and
otherwise claims would possibly like
reduce that number in heal is it would
reduce that number if the ones who were
already there were allowed to do their
job but right now the ones who are there
are actually not allowed to do their
jobs because remain in Mexico though
it's technically the law of the land
homeland security has been instructed
not to enforce it that's unlawful and
but by the way I would call that back to
our first discussion I would call that a
threat to our democracy when we have
democratically passed laws but where the
administrators of that law say we're not
going to actually follow that law that I
actually consider to be the greatest
threat to democracy of all and just the
last point is that the people in this
audience which is a very diverse
audience specifically black Amer
Americans should be sensed that they're
being replaced by foreigners and
something that has always been kind of a
mantra of the Democrat Party is that we
have a and I can resonate with this
partially is that we have an obligation
to American citizens specifically black
Americans and black Americans are now
being put aside so that a bunch of
foreigners can come undercut wages and
fill your cities in fact we see this in
Chicago New York so I don't expect you
guys to like put on the magah hat right
now but I want to plan a seed for you
guys that the the black community which
you obviously both care a lot about um
is actually not being prioritized
instead people from the third world are
coming in and Black America is getting
put last which seems to be a common
theme over the last 60 years when
Democrats are in control well okay um I
guess final Point thank you guys so much
thank you I appreciate it thank you guys